55 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

There are two things that concern me a little bit. Both are settled at the start of your MWO Career.

First - instead of a starting mech there could be a specific sum of c-bills - for mercs and lone wolfs or a specifc sum of prestige points for house units. Maybe you can buy a light mech in perfect shape or a walking ruin, with bad armament that was once called Awesome (still a Awesome but maybe with replaced weapons for the PPCs, damaged activators and damaged heatsinks...)

How to influence this sum? This get me to my second guess: Most Mechwarriors have learned years at their merc brigade or on academy to pilot a mech. It seams that we are thrown in battle without training - best training is combat however
I think a good way would be to have a tutorial - you have to complete it successful - you don't have to when you start with Steiner - you may able to buy with "real money" the title of a baron - and next time you got a AssaultMech and are promoted to Hauptmann/Captain...
if you have finished the tutorial - you get a ranking - this is the basement for your prestige point or c-bills you get at the start - the better you finish the academy - the better is your start.

The tutorial shouldn't be to easy. I think back in the times of MW2 i was hardly able to complete the task where you have run through a alley of targets on both sides. Or have one played Tie-Fighter - the training tunnels where also hard work. The objective should as harder as your academy ranking is (clan barrier > elite academy > normal academy > "mech warrior school" > merc training > pirate training

When you have finished the training you are allowed to accept your ranking or you make another turn in the academy to improve your skills and in the same way

Should there a difference between learning to pilot as child at a MercBrigade or learning pilot a mech on a Academy?
I think so - make some theoretical questions - who was the fifth Archon of the Lyran Commenwealth, what happened during the first succession war on kentares iv...so on. Based on your answers you get the patent of a specific College - for example NagelRing or NAIS so on.
Where you get your MechWarrior patent from is at least not really important but help the RPG part of the game.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 01 April 2012 - 10:16 PM.

[Belisarius1]

So, the problem with giving rewards from training like that is that it encourages creating a bunch of accounts and doing the run over and over until you're good at it, to get a better starting situation.

If you want something like that, players really need to be able to go back and try it again later.

Personally, I'm not fussed.

[Mute82]

A tutoroal should definetly be in the game at the start. To show you the basic mechanics of piloting a mech and combat, explain the aiming system etc. But I think it should also cover the role wafare nad community warfare aspects of the game, specialy the later since it adds a whole new level to the game and makes a lot more intresting.

As for what you start with IMO everyone should start with c-bills and have a few basic mechs and upgrades available for purchase.

[Karl Streiger]

Belisarius†, on 29 March 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

If you want something like that, players really need to be able to go back and try it again later.

That was my intention.
I mean your character can't die - so nothing is wrong in starting the same test ever and ever and ever till you have a grade A.
Or for the hard core ones...train for the test - and then you have only one test - you fail or you pass...but i think that will encourage the user account spam.

[Namwons]

I believe there should be a tutorial as well. They are going to implement alot of new role specific game mechanisms that we need to get familar with. It should go through the basics of each role, and put you in a mech of each weight class so a new player can get a feel for the game, its roles, and some differences of weight classes. Then after the tutorial, a new player will have a way better idea of what he/she would want to pilot, instead of choosing blind.

[V4D3R]

i think there should be a tutorial with practice and theory to rank your skills.
Better ranking = more start money.
But there shouldn`t be timed questions. people like me (from Germany or other countrys) should have time to translate the questions.
You say no, because the people start to google when they have enough time.
I say thats ok. To google is a little bit like learning, because the people must read faq`s to get the answer

[Karl Streiger]

No problem with google... and i don't know who was the fifth archon...

[Nik Van Rhijn]

You should be able to start with the mech of your choice in good condition. People new to the IP are going to find it difficult enough without any other handicaps. It seems to me just another version of the "start in a light and work up to an assault" syndrome. Thats an artifact of the SP games.

[Xyph3r]

on one hand, your idea sounds great, at least for those already familliar with the BT Universe, but it could keep new players from playing the game, cause they wouldn´t get their "OMG look, im soooo cool cause i have a Skull for a Head" favourite starting Mech

maybe an optional test would be a way out of that, so that players who want to can earn some Extra C-bills to be able to put in that neat little second AC-20 or additional 5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous they could not afford with their regular starting money.

and - lets be Honest, most of us are looking forward to ripping apart that skull-headed 12 year olds rear armors in an Urbie or similar tonnaged ´Mech ;-)

[Wraith 1]

Answered options 2 and 1 respectively, although not exactly as portrayed. A training mission might be nice, but what about all us veteran Mechwarriors that don't need no stinking training? A quick proficiency test as an alternative option, reminiscent of a Clan trial would be a nice way to get through it quicker while still keeping random munchkins from skipping the training.

And I also have a reason behind voting for the less popular 'start with a 'mech'. You can sell a 'mech to get more c-bills, but it's usually pretty inefficient. It forces more careful consideration of your options at the beginning of the game, and creates a difference between the houses due to the popularity of 'mechs within the houses, creating yet another decision to make.

[StandingCow]

Absolutely there should be a tutorial. Can't have people going into matches and not knowing how to move forward!

[Halfinax]

I think you should just have a choice of several 'Mechs available to you. Basically either 4 'Mechs that are always free to play (one from each weight class) or a rolling stable of 'Mechs. I don't think "a 'Mech" or C-bills are the right solution considering this is going to be Free to Play. With the C-bill option: what happens if you don't like the 'Mech? Well you're stuck with it until you can afford enough C-bills to try out something else, and if that second choice doesn't work for you, then as a new player you might just give the game up. The stable of free 'Mechs solves that problem.

If you are just given a 'Mech then I have a few questions. 1) Is it chosen at random? If so, the issue is what if the player doesn't like that 'Mech or it doesn't fit their idea of the role they want to play. 2) Is it standard for everyone? If so, then what weight class is it? Looking around the forums I think most people would say it should be a light, and would just promote the bigger is better mentality. Which we are trying to avoid to make role warfare viable.

I like the "academy" idea in principal, but I see some problems with it. I think just a simple gauntlet style training course is the best solution. Something like the training course in the beginning of MW4 should be fine. It teaches the basics of controlling a 'Mech and firing the weapons.

Giving out ranks for academy performance just encourages new players to keep playing the academy until they get the rank and maximum c-bills they can get, and as I stated before I think the c-bill option for first 'Mech has some problems.

All in all I like your concepts OP, and perhaps with some community brainstorming we can come up with something that would work, and wouldn't be too much of a PITA for PGI to implement.

Going with your academy idea. Instead of focusing on it earning the player rank or prestige, or c-bills how about instead: It puts them in a few different 'Mechs across a few shortish training missions/gauntlets and at the end of completing all 4 scenarios it suggests a weight class/ role for the player based on their performance? Use that in conjunction with the stable of free 'Mechs, and there is no harm for the player to test and see if the assessment was correct. This way the player feels that 1) the game is trying to help them find out where the fit, and 2) they don't feel compelled to do the training course over and over again until they get the result they want. Instead they get a polite suggestion, but they aren't forced to follow it.

[Felbombling]

I'd like to start out with a training session and a score that reflects my playstyle/abilities and places me in the correct Mech for my skill set/leanings and faction choice. If anything, I think the better I do in the skill sessions the LESS C-Bills I should get at start up. This way I am forced into a situation where I need to fight my way out of the financial mess with equipment that would be better than more skilled opponents and worse off than less skilled opponents. Kooky, I know, but that is just the way I think on it.

[Belisarius1]

StaggerCheck, on 30 March 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

I'd like to start out with a training session and a score that reflects my playstyle/abilities and places me in the correct Mech for my skill set/leanings and faction choice. If anything, I think the better I do in the skill sessions the LESS C-Bills I should get at start up. This way I am forced into a situation where I need to fight my way out of the financial mess with equipment that would be better than more skilled opponents and worse off than less skilled opponents. Kooky, I know, but that is just the way I think on it.

Well, sure, but then everyone would just throw the training session.

Personally, I still don't really like this, mostly because game tutorials are never, ever applicable to actual online play. The only real way to learn is by being killed a few dozen times.

I'm particularly against a theory component, because the test's answers will be 100% wrong or outdated within a week.

[Namwons]

Halfinax, on 30 March 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

I think you should just have a choice of several 'Mechs available to you. Basically either 4 'Mechs that are always free to play (one from each weight class) or a rolling stable of 'Mechs. I don't think "a 'Mech" or C-bills are the right solution considering this is going to be Free to Play. With the C-bill option: what happens if you don't like the 'Mech? Well you're stuck with it until you can afford enough C-bills to try out something else, and if that second choice doesn't work for you, then as a new player you might just give the game up. The stable of free 'Mechs solves that problem.

well you said it yourself, its going to be free to play. just roll another toon. if its a first mech and a new character that you dont like, no harm in rerolling. no xp lost or c-bills lost. problems already solved

[00dlez]

Halfinax, on 30 March 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

With the C-bill option: what happens if you don't like the 'Mech? Well you're stuck with it until you can afford enough C-bills to try out something else, and if that second choice doesn't work for you, then as a new player you might just give the game up. The stable of free 'Mechs solves that problem.

I mostly disagree (respectfully, I do see your point). What if you don't like any of the starter mechs... or the one you purchase on your own first...!

I'm mostly on board with starting with enough c-bills to pick your first mech and grind your way to a second (or drop some cash and buy a few to start with). It's probably more likely that someone will be able to succeed with a mech of their choosing than fitting into a one size fits all stable.

The other alternative, and I don't think it is very good, is that until you have your own in-game mechs, you are simply assigned a random mech for a mission. C-bills are retained with no worries of repair bills, but the match maker will toss you in a mech to help balance deployments.
At very least, a player could say "Wow, I want an Awesome of my own to pilot every game!" and start working towards that goal, instead of spending all their cash on an Atlas and regretting the slow, cumbersome, skull headed (HA!) purchase.

Edited by 00dlez, 30 March 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[Garth Erlam]

Love the ideas, keep them coming.

[Kemosh]

A tutorial and a Training mode are essential. Something like 'Free Roaming' on the maps, so people can get some knowledge of the layouts and be less useless in the first games: a very good thing would be also a 'Test Mode' for new weapons-mechs BEFORE you buy them (If i remember correctly Planetside had something like that) so people can have an idea of the stuff before spending c-bills or real money (We don't want enraged users storming the forums with: 'OH MY GAWD THIS WEAPON IS HORRIBLE I WANT A REFUND! KILL THE DEVELOPERS!' etc.etc.).
The Academy idea is neat but too RPG-like for most of the playerbase, IMHO.
Honestly, I have no idea how to implement a good 'Skill Test': Quake Live had one based on techniques, but MWO would need a good AI to put up a fight against an human opponent.

[Logi]

It doesn´t have to be a fight against the AI. it can be something like a proving ground where ardan sortek trained at new avalon. i mean just a test course, where some targets pop up from the terrain. perhaps some laser turrets. it would be also great to do such a test course with some different mechs, untill you do the exam. after the exam you can also acess the test course before buying a new mech.

[Cyrusxs]

Halfinax, on 30 March 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

Going with your academy idea. Instead of focusing on it earning the player rank or prestige, or c-bills how about instead: It puts them in a few different 'Mechs across a few shortish training missions/gauntlets and at the end of completing all 4 scenarios it suggests a weight class/ role for the player based on their performance? Use that in conjunction with the stable of free 'Mechs, and there is no harm for the player to test and see if the assessment was correct. This way the player feels that 1) the game is trying to help them find out where the fit, and 2) they don't feel compelled to do the training course over and over again until they get the result they want. Instead they get a polite suggestion, but they aren't forced to follow it.

Love it. Anyway though I think the training should be optional because being rewarded for doing it just doesn't make sense to me because a tutorial is supposed to teach you not reward you. Also, the questions don't really seem nessesary to me since this is PvP not an RPG but it would be cool to have some RPG elements somewhere in the game if possible.