15 replies to this topic

[Joehunk]

I have not tested this since open beta, but as of the pre-open-beta patch, the following snippet from the patch notes was incorrect:

Quote

Engines are also automatically upgraded to double the heat sink capability [when a mech is upgraded to double heat sinks]

In other words, the 10 engine heat sinks were not counted as double whether they were mounted inside or outside the engine. There were some mixed messages before open beta on when a fix would be incoming, but the above text is still in the patch notes.

[Redshift2k5]

As far as I know there has been no change yet to the game to modify DHS; Note that the quoted line from the patch notes existed in the patch notes long before they said there would be a hotfix to change DHS. That was not a recent change, but is instead older, outdated (incorrect) information.

[Toolan]

AFTER the patch the devs/testers noticed, that the engine DHS Heatsinks are not doubled. This will be fixed until 6th November in any way

[Pagan Steel]

This is part Heat sink problem and part Mech Lab problem for me.

I saved just enough C Bills (1.5 mill) to upgrade my Founders Jenner to Double heast sinks. However after doing the upgrade. I have no heatsinks. I have no money to fix anything (8654 Cbills after upgrade) I once again have a broken Mech in my mechlab.
I had assumed that upgrading meant you got the initial loadout of the Mech in double heatsinks.
There was nothing intuitive about the Mech lab that said after the upgrade you still need to purchase double heatsinks...

Needless to say after the initial Double Heatsink launch, and this, I am not to happy with this game. That is twice the double heatsink modification has lead to a broken down Mech.

Looks like I choose another Mech and grind until I have enough to repair my Jenner.
Is this the model PGI is going to use?
Allow people to use a non intuitive Mechlab to break their Mechs, so they have to pay more real money to get them fixed?

That is even more larcenous then Pay to win.

Looks like my time playing MWO will be limited. Good luck to every body, enjoy your Korean style grind fest. Mot wins in the end.

[zmeul]

I dunno about you guys, but my client did not patch on he 29th

[Corvus Antaka]

if the engine heatsinks are counted as doubles, might well happen that no one will use singles ever again. might be better to adjust the overall heatscale instead.

[EvangelionUnit]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 30 October 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

if the engine heatsinks are counted as doubles, might well happen that no one will use singles ever again. might be better to adjust the overall heatscale instead.

that's the point about DHS. the just become pain in the rear when you suddenly need more then 20 to run cool

[Crimson Fenris]

DHS arent fixed yet, they will be between now and the october 6th. When you'll see a patch button, I think you can read patch notes and see by yourself

The only bug is currently all HS in the engin (including those you manually add) are not doubled. Only DHS in other crits slots act as intended.
The heat efficiency scale is correct, assuming all HS are doubled (wich obviously isnt the case yet).

EvangelionUnit, on 31 October 2012 - 02:51 AM, said:

that's the point about DHS. the just become pain in the rear when you suddenly need more then 20 to run cool

Agreed.

Depending of your loadout, sometimes you may need way more than 20 total HS to cool your mech. I think about PPC, ER LArge lasers, and other high heat weapons.
I ran an Atlas build with 3 LL (and a Gauss), and i needed about 35 HS to cool it efficiently. That means 12 DHS in the engine, and at least 5-6 other in other places, meaning 15 to 18 Critical slots to find, only for heatsinks.
Thats better than the needed 25 crits for the same efficiency with SHS, but still a certain amount of space to find. Add the Endo-steel, and there is now 29 to 32 slots... things begin to be difficult ^^

[EvangelionUnit]

when i have grinded the money, i want to try an Awesome with ES, DHS and maybe XL ... depending on the "grind" ... 2 ERPPC's and 4 Med lasers and TAG ... worked with SHS, but i want to see if i can squeez more out of it ... maybe i have this baby short befor the end of the open beta

[SilverlightPony]

Joehunk, on 30 October 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

I have not tested this since open beta, but as of the pre-open-beta patch, the following snippet from the patch notes was incorrect:


In other words, the 10 engine heat sinks were not counted as double whether they were mounted inside or outside the engine. There were some mixed messages before open beta on when a fix would be incoming, but the above text is still in the patch notes.

http://mwomercs.com/...heat-sinks-dhs/

Bryan Ekman said:

In the October 25th patch we introduce DHS into MWO for all to play with. I had David write up the how DHS and Engine Heat Sinks (DHS) works in MWO.

[nested quote snipped out]

Now the bug.

EHS' are not taking into consideration the DHS values of 0.2. Instead they are using regular heat sink value of 0.1. This is the bug, it has been fixed in the upcoming November 6th patch.

During the testing of the DHS bug we uncovered a long standing heat related bug. This is also going to be addressed in the next patch. Expect some widespread changes. I will fill you later when the exact numbers are tested.

Emphasis added.

[Cornelius V Osmond]

Looks like i confused how HS mechanics work.
1. There is the mechlab heat efficiency
2. There is HS count
3. There is some sort of stacking
4. There is some mythical connection between all of them

I upgraded my Atlas to DHS, got less HS count now, but ~0.27 more efficiency, but i can't see much of a difference. What exactly is broken?

[Tragos]

The heat efficiency scale and the DHS.

Your engine provides 8-10 heatsinks. After upgrading your mech to DHS the scale assumes they are upgraded as well meaning you got 10 DHS = 20Points of heatreduction. Right now they are NOT doubled, therefore you only have 10HS + exterior. Try this in an atlas. Before: 10 engine, 22 outside=32 . After: 10 engine, 7 outside. 10+7x2= 24. Therefore after the upgrade you have LESS heat reduction in most cases, then before. With double engine heatsinks it would be (10+7)x2 = 34. 2 additional points, while saving one slot and 7 tons.

[Joehunk]

Yes I can confirm they were not fixed. However, I am confused by this post that appeared in the "Old Issues" forum:
http://mwomercs.com/...e-requirements/

Relevant text:

Quote

In the Mech Lab, if the user upgrades to Double Heatsinks and equips a smaller engine that requires heatsinks, equipping one double heatsink will not count for two heatsink despite double heatsinks being twice as powerful

So they're saying, what...if you have a 200 engine and double heat sinks, you only have to allocate one external heat sink instead of two? Not only is that not canon, it also makes no sense. What if you have a 175 engine and double heat sinks. Does that mean you have to allocate one and a half external heat sinks?

I am afraid there might be some lack of understanding of how DHS is supposed to work within PGI. It can be confusing, but it can be stated simply:
- Engines come with 10 "mandatory" heat sinks included in their tonnage
- Engines can hold internally a number of heat sinks equal to their rating divided by 25 rounding down
- Engines smaller than 250 must allocate all the mandatory heat sinks they cannot hold externally, paying crit spaces but not tonnage
- If a mech is equipped with double heat sinks, the 10 mandatory heat sinks are also double heat sinks. Any allocated externally take 3 crit spaces each.

The end. A double heat sink and a single heat sink are both "a heat sink" for purposes of this discussion, which is I think where the confusion lies. A double heat sink does not "count as two heat sinks". It's one heat sink, that happens to be twice as good as a single heat sink.

It's clear from Eakman's posts that he gets it (he has also mentioned playing around in Solaris Skunk Works so that is not surprising). Maybe he needs to hold a meeting

Edited by Joehunk, 31 October 2012 - 06:43 AM.

[Buckminster]

Pagan Steel, on 30 October 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

This is part Heat sink problem and part Mech Lab problem for me.

I saved just enough C Bills (1.5 mill) to upgrade my Founders Jenner to Double heast sinks. However after doing the upgrade. I have no heatsinks. I have no money to fix anything (8654 Cbills after upgrade) I once again have a broken Mech in my mechlab.
I had assumed that upgrading meant you got the initial loadout of the Mech in double heatsinks.
There was nothing intuitive about the Mech lab that said after the upgrade you still need to purchase double heatsinks...

I think there is an issue with DHS and light mechs. An engine comes with 10 SHS standard, but can not necessarily hold 10 if it's small enough. A lot of times that extra heat sink is in the head, or maybe the legs. The issue is that DHS don't fit there. So I think what is happening is that if you upgrade your small engine to DHS, it automatically removes heat sinks that don't fit, and all of a sudden you are below 10 heat sinks, which is what Mechlab considers the minimum before it will let you launch.

Just a theory, but I noticed it when I upgraded my Cat to DHS - the 4 heat sinks I keep in the legs got moved to my inventory.

[Firefun]

Bryan Ekman said:

During the testing of the DHS bug we uncovered a long standing heat related bug. This is also going to be addressed in the next patch. Expect some widespread changes. I will fill you later when the exact numbers are tested.

This sounds very interesting, gonna look forward to the patch on November 6th.