34 replies to this topic

[Finestaut]

For all the new and old beta testers out there, this guide is an in-depth analysis of the ballistic weapons currently available. I've taken raw data from Ohmwrecker's great spreadsheets, and combined it with my personal experience, to give you a more detailed look into how these weapons work, and help you build your ballistic 'mechs.

In general, I'm looking at a few key factors:
Raw damage - How much damage is done each hit, I want to focus damage into one location, so I want big hits However, at the end of the day, this is a matter of skill, as you always need to be able to put multiple shots in the same location.
Weight Efficiency - How much damage over time am I getting for the tons I am using? (very important!)
Heat Efficiency - Ballistic weapons usually run cool, so this is less of a factor than on laser or missiles, but hot weapons force me to mount heat sinks, which reduces my overall firepower.
Convergence Properties - Low rate of fire weapons tend to be hard to use at close range, due to unpredictable convergence angles. This gets worse if you have a weak PC or moderately high ping, so keep it in mind.

Best in Breed
Gauss Rifle

• Raw Damage: 15 Damage
  
• Weight Efficiency: .25Damage/Second/Ton
  
• Heat Efficiency: 15 Damage/Heat
  
• Range: Long

The biggest complaint near the end of CB was that this weapon was overpowered. Stacking 15 points of damage at any range, for no heat, it's definitely a solid choice, and extremely powerful. However, weighing in at a hefty 15 tons makes it completely dominate your build, and it's somewhat lacking in brawls due to the low rate of fire and overall weight inefficiency.

AC2

• Raw Damage: 2 Damage
  
• Weight Efficiency: .66 Damage/Second/Ton
  
• Heat Efficiency: 2 Damage/Heat
  
• Range: Long

Ton for ton, probably the best weapon in the game. Not only does it put out exceptional damage, it does so for very little weight. It also applies a healthy amount of cockpit rattle, and when 2 are chain-fired, it puts out fast, powerful, steady damage at all ranges. The only downside is that the rounds are individually a little soft, and tend to spread damage across the target, so it's important to hold your aim steady. I strongly recommend it for any ballistic slot.

UAC5

• Raw Damage: 5 Damage
  
• Weight Efficiency: .50 Damage/Second/Ton
  
• Heat Efficiency: 5 Damage/Heat
  
• Range: Medium-Long

An advanced weapon for advanced players. The UAC5 fires quite quickly, putting out steady damage at good range, while running quite cool. Stacking 5 damage per hit isn't great, but the rate of fire makes it quite destructive. The tricky bit is the jamming. If you're desperate, you can fire once during the cooldown, effectively doubling your damage output, turning this already solid weapon into a fire-spitting hate-tube, but you run an extremely high risk of jamming, temporarily disabling the weapon. Due to the way this is mechanic has been implemented, it's extremely easy to accidentally double-tap, and jam your weapon when you were trying to play it safe. Thus I only recommend it for people with patience and experience.

Passing Grades

AC5

• Raw Damage: 5 Damage
  
• Weight Efficiency: .37 Damage/Second/Ton
  
• Heat Efficiency: 5 Damage/Heat
  
• Range: Medium

Mediocre. It lacks both the blazing damage ability of the AC2, and the massive heat efficiency of the Gauss rifle, and stacking 5 damage per hit is not at all impressive. It tries to be a balanced, mid ranged gun, but spreads itself too thin. It is nicely heat efficient, and not tremendously heavy, so it makes a decent secondary weapon. Just don't expect it to carry you through a tough fight. I don't generally recommend it, but it has potential.

AC10

• Raw Damage:10 Damage
  
• Weight Efficiency: .33 Damage/Second/Ton
  
• Heat Efficiency: 3.3 Damage/Heat
  
• Range: Medium-Short

A marginal choice at best. This weapon has extremely soft damage output for it's weight, and has a low enough rate of fire to begin to suffer from convergence issues at close range. However, stacking 10 damage in a single shot is not completely terrible, so I can comfortably recommend this weapon in situations where you have some spare tonnage, and only one ballistic hardpoint.

LBXAC10

• Raw Damage: 10x1 Damage
  
• Weight Efficiency: .36 Damage/Second/Ton
  
• Heat Efficiency: 3.3 Damage/Heat
  
• Range: Short

Extremely situational. This gun barely avoids getting thrown in the trash by virtue of the spread being both a blessing and curse. The shotgun effect makes it one of a handful of ballistic weapons that can reliably damage lights, and, at extremely close range, all 10 pellets will reliably hit the same point on an assault 'mech. Finally, if you're the one moving fast, you can use the pellet spread to get partial credit on snap shots. Thus it's fairly effective as light defense, and a modest way to put damage out on assaults. I recommend it only as an Atlas' sidearm, where it's high weight is less of a liability, or on fast builds with limited hardpoints.

Trash

AC20

• Raw Damage: 20 Damage
  
• Weight Efficiency: .36 Damage/Second/Ton
  
• Heat Efficiency: 2.8 Damage/Heat
  
• Rage: Short

​Completely indefensible. This gun couples low weight efficiency with the lowest heat efficiency, and the lowest ammo per ton. Combine this with an extremely short range, and a low rate of fire causing convergence-misses, and you get a gun that is too hot and heavy for its performance. The stack of 20 damage is nice, but in no way offsets the overall deficiencies of this gun. I do not recommend it, and strongly suggest seeking other ways to use the tonnage.

Machine Gun
This gun is not useful under any circumstances, and only included for completeness. Don't bother.

Edited by Finestaut, 30 October 2012 - 08:43 PM.

[EtherDragon]

Your analysis is missing something - max DPS, and field experience.

The AC 20 has the highest DPS of all of them except for the UAC5 while double-tapping (risking a jam). Also, given continuous fire, the AC20 actually needs fewer heat-sinks to be heat neutral than the AC2 and the UAC5.

I wouldn't throw it in the Trash...

[Volturnus]

EtherDragon, on 30 October 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

I wouldn't throw it in the Trash...

Agreed here... I may just be biased because getting an AC/20 kill is really satisfying, but I still think the weapon has a use.
Other than that, a good/interesting read.

[Hex Pallett]

You missed something about LBX AC10. The shotgun effect on LBX AC10 also means you don't have to aim precisely in most cases, which is exceptionally effective when you have a highly upgraded, high-speed brawler mech with only one hardpoint available. Imagine a Centurion 9-A with a proper XL engine, three Streak SRM2, 2 medium pulse lasers and an LBX AC10.

[Zelator]

I prefer the AC20 to the gauss rifle personally, the low ammo count does not bother me and I only carry 2 tons on my Atlas. I keep it on its own individual weapon group (the extra butttons on my mouse does the trick). I use it more as a oh Sh*t I did not see that Assault mech try and face-hug me panic button. Its a great weapon for taking out dangerous weapons on enemy mechs, I just love taking out the quasimodo tumour on that hunchback in 1 or 2 shots.

However I feel the AC20 is only viable on the Atlas as a high damage backup weapon. Especially useful on certain maps like the tunnel chokepoint on the ice map (i forget the name). The fear factor alone lets you blockade that vital part of the map as most players I encounter tend not to want to step in front of me.

Helmstif, on 30 October 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

You missed something about LBX AC10. The shotgun effect on LBX AC10 also means you don't have to aim precisely in most cases, which is exceptionally effective when you have a highly upgraded, high-speed brawler mech with only one hardpoint available. Imagine a Centurion 9-A with a proper XL engine, three Streak SRM2, 2 medium pulse lasers and an LBX AC10.

I love the LBX10 in combination with SRM6 if you put them in the same weapon group, you get good synergy as they are effective at the same range and the damage is incredible, sometimes I run 2xSRM6 and LBX10 in chain fire just for the cockpit shake, probably my most dangerous brawling combo.

[Lege]

There is only one ballistic weapon and that is the gauss rifle.
The rest are there to confuse you.
If you can't take a gauss rifle, then leave your ballistic spots open to get more heat sinks, bigger lasers or more missiles.

[Finestaut]

I appreciate the feedback. I left max dps out deliberately, because I feel it paints a distorted picture. The ac20 has ever so slightly more dps than the ac2, but weighs more than twice as much. I can't really call that in favor of the 20. I also dont put much stock in heat neutrality, having never dropped in a heat neutral 'mech, and never intending to.

I figured I would get heat for trashing the ac20, but I've seen, over and over, huge improvements in overall performance by replacing it with anything else summing to 15 tons. It's simply not worth it. I stand by the condemnation, but I'll dial back the tone.

Specially, regarding field experience, are you suggesting I add a paragraph about my experience with each of these? I could add this, but I'm concerned it would get a little rambly, and might distract from the facts as presented.

[Finestaut]

Helmstif, on 30 October 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

You missed something about LBX AC10. The shotgun effect on LBX AC10 also means you don't have to aim precisely in most cases, which is exceptionally effective when you have a highly upgraded, high-speed brawler mech with only one hardpoint available. Imagine a Centurion 9-A with a proper XL engine, three Streak SRM2, 2 medium pulse lasers and an LBX AC10.

Good point. I had forgotten to cover that. I actually used to run that very load out on a dragon to delouse friendly assaults. I've updated the guide.

Lege, on 30 October 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

There is only one ballistic weapon and that is the gauss rifle.
The rest are there to confuse you.
If you can't take a gauss rifle, then leave your ballistic spots open to get more heat sinks, bigger lasers or more missiles.

This was true for a long time, but I feel the ROF patch was successful in at least giving the uac and ac2 something special to bring to the table. Less so on the standard 5 and up.

Edited by Finestaut, 30 October 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[Volturnus]

Finestaut, on 30 October 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

The ac20 has ever so slightly more dps than the ac2, but weighs more than twice as much.

I can see where you're coming from, it's just that the problem I have with the AC/2 is that it's hard for me to justify spending 6 tons on only one of them, and when there are two of them, it just feels messy IMO. Having to focus on chainfiring two of them and making sure each one hits the same location as well as managing other weapons you may have is just not as easy as the sort of "fire-and-forget" the AC20 has in comparison. If you're good you can make all 2 or 3 of the necessary shots hit the same location and you're good.

I guess in the end it really comes down to preference and what you're good with. My lancemates used to bash me for piloting Commandos over Jenners, but I do just as well as our Jenner pilots.

If you're good with it, go for it.

[EtherDragon]

I should point out that chain-firing two AC2s is only slightly faster than sustained fire on a single AC2 because of the delay between weapons in the chain.

[Kyle Hawkins]

Zelator, on 30 October 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

I prefer the AC20 to the gauss rifle personally, the low ammo count does not bother me and I only carry 2 tons on my Atlas. I keep it on its own individual weapon group (the extra butttons on my mouse does the trick). I use it more as a oh Sh*t I did not see that Assault mech try and face-hug me panic button. Its a great weapon for taking out dangerous weapons on enemy mechs, I just love taking out the quasimodo tumour on that hunchback in 1 or 2 shots.

The thing your missing there though, is that the AC20 fires so hot it will very quickly force you to choose between either your AC20, or your lasers/SRMs. The thing has the same heat per shot as a large laser. Loading a gauss rifle instead at the expense of only a single ton, will allow you to fire your other weapons as well, which is worth massively more than 5 extra damage. Add in the extra ammo, range, and velocity, and it's so one sided there really is no reason to carry an AC20 in the present build.

I just had to drop in my stock founders Hunchie for my first games since the reset, and man is it painful to be stuck with an AC20 for four games. I really do hope they fix this soon, but until then it's a weapon even Quasimodo would shun as hideous.

[dtgamemaster]

Speaking from experience.

There are only 2 kinds of ballistic weapons u need to put on yr mech..

The Gauss or UAC/5.
UAC/5 Jamming can be circumvented by a mouse/keyboard macro, making it one of the BEST DPS weapons for its heat and tonnage.
Gauss is superb. Close range, Medium Range, Far range. Nothing else to add.

Due to the nature of ballistics, it is always hard to hit targets that are moving , or when you are moving. Being arm or torso mounted also makes a difference. So just try it out and know it takes skill to land your shots, especially when brawling.

[MustrumRidcully]

How did you calculate the weight? DId you account for ammo and heat sinks to actually run these weapons? This can alter the efficiency quite a bit.

Also to note: Low rate of fire is not necessarily bad. It is excellent for sniping, but even in a brawl, it is helpful to not have to deliver a constrant stream of shots, as you can use th time in between to take evasive torso movements, directing shots at still well armored sections, and avoiding head shots.


---

I have my own damage/weight efficiency calculations...

The simple model - ammo for 3 minutes and heat sinks to make the weapon heat neutral:
There are two lines - one is merely based on DPS, the other is based on average damage output over 10 seconds plus the single shot damage, divided by 10. That is trying to weight the advantage of high single shot damage vs pure DPS.



A more complex model that uses "Targeted Enagement Times" as concept - again ammo for 3 minutes of continous fire, but only heat sinks that you can fire for at least 20 respectively 90 seconds before you overheat. This model is somewhat closer to practical concerns - yo udon't need to never overheat, but you don't want to overheat before you dealt with your enemy.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 30 October 2012 - 11:57 PM.

[Bagua]

Volturnus, on 30 October 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Agreed here... I may just be biased because getting an AC/20 kill is really satisfying, but I still think the weapon has a use.
Other than that, a good/interesting read.

Yeah, you are sooo right. Big GUN big FUN.

[Masterminds]

Great guide but, I think you're judging the weapons based on only a couple classes though. The ac20 Is a great weapon especialally for close ranged.

[McMoody]

you need to be carefull with how you treat DPS in MWO.

Originally, DPS became big in MMORPGs where you would initiate combat and start dealing out damage non stop - espcially with auto attack skills the weapon DPS is a huge thing because it keeps doing that damage non stop until the battle is over.

in MWO, you will have occasions where you fire non stop, and yes , raw DPS is important here.

There however lots of occasions where you do not keep the trigger down at all times. Manouvering into position is one of these occasions, as well as heat management.

If you dont keep constant fire, DPS is not all there is - spike damage becomes a factor, and this speaks for the AC20.

[Adrienne Vorton]

funny enough, your lb10x description is exactly how i use it... for my lighthunter and as a sidearm for brawls... in combination with a ´pinpoint heavy weapon its really nice^^

[Adrienne Vorton]

McMoody, on 31 October 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

If you dont keep constant fire, DPS is not all there is - spike damage becomes a factor, and this speaks for the AC20.

i would agree that DPS in MWO is much overrated by many players... depends on the role you play, but in many situations "alpha damage" (so the damage you can deal with a single accurate hit) is much more important... some builds and roles are dps dependant, while others focus more on the "alpha damage"...

[MustrumRidcully]

McMoody, on 31 October 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

you need to be carefull with how you treat DPS in MWO.

Originally, DPS became big in MMORPGs where you would initiate combat and start dealing out damage non stop - espcially with auto attack skills the weapon DPS is a huge thing because it keeps doing that damage non stop until the battle is over.

in MWO, you will have occasions where you fire non stop, and yes , raw DPS is important here.

There however lots of occasions where you do not keep the trigger down at all times. Manouvering into position is one of these occasions, as well as heat management.

If you dont keep constant fire, DPS is not all there is - spike damage becomes a factor, and this speaks for the AC20.

Most MMORPGs also have weapon attacks coming in single strikes, and it can make a difference whether a weapon strikes every 4 seconds for 8 damage or every 2 seconds for 4 damage.

MW:O is not that special. The bigges difference may be the hit locations. But a hit location still has n hit points, and you need to destroy them all - and to figure out how long it will take you, you want to know the damage figure.

In either type of these games, burst vs pure sustained DPS is relevant. But you still have to destroy all your targets hit point, and you want to do that fast - if your burst is not large enough to destroy it during the time you have that burst damage, then burst is not really all that helpful.

And even if it does, it may be less helpful, since MMOs - including MW:O - usually feature multiple participants on either side. I fyou have the Giant A** Anti Mech Rifle that destroys one Atlas per shot, but it needs 2 minutes to recharge, then a group of enemies can still beat your team, because in those 2 minutes you're waiting for the second shot, they may be able to out-DPS you with weapons with a better ROF and a higher resulting DPS.

(Of course, such a weapon is still generally a terrible idea in any game, and not well balanced... )


In a sniping situation, where you may have only short moments of opportunity, DPS tends to be less relevant and burst damage important. But in a brawl, you really benefit from DPS.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 31 October 2012 - 04:58 AM.

[Timelordwho]

AC/20 has a pretty useful usage in drawing fire and zone control since it can threaten complete component destruction at much higher structure levels.

If someone has a AC2s or an (U)AC5 I can probably risk going in with a pretty broken mech for a hit and run strike, where I can deal with a hit or two, but against an AC20 I'm risking losing my gun arm, a leg (IE a probable core), or core by choosing to engage.

It can also crush cockpits that still have armor on it. No other single weapon does the 15 structure + armor neccessary for that.

Edited by Timelordwho, 31 October 2012 - 05:37 AM.