23 replies to this topic

[FerretGR]

Remove repair bills.

Let me explain. Repair bills require that money be awarded on a loss. Otherwise, you'd have astronomical amounts of cash lost by teams that lose more consistently than they win (ie. half the player base). The simple fact that you will be awarded money on a loss means that the possibility exists for a player to make money regardless of his effort or in-game success, and that means that some players will simply farm, using the methods in the title.

My proposal is this: base c-bill earnings on what happens in a match. Players start with a base earnings of zero, and if they AFK and do nothing, they never advance beyond this. If they suicide rush and die after only firing a few shots, they get a pittance. The players who fight it out, do damage, limb their opponents, attempt caps, defend caps, etc., would be rewarded for these actions. It would mean that play is required to earn money. No more AFK farming and at the very least a significant decrease in suicide farming, because one is completely useless and the other basically not viable.

I understand that the removal of the repair and rearm process affects immersion. We want realism, and repairs are something that adds to the realism. However, when I personally weigh immersion/realism against farming, I'd rather get rid of the farming. I think if you PUG, you know how prevalent these behaviors are and how serious an issue they become, given that a single AFK or suicide puts your team at a disadvantage. It sucks that immersion would have to be impacted by this change, but the positives would outweigh the negatives, IMHO.

*dons flame-retardant suit*

[TheTrap]

I'd be more for a report button for a player.

If PGI receives more than 50-100 reports of the player in that month, a ban would be required.

[Vlad Ward]

Or just wait till Tuesday.

[zhajin]

The problem with a purely performance based rewards, is figuring out how to define performance. Typically it would mean those with more damage and more kills would get more cbills. however then what happens to the scouts, and the base defenders and the other mechs that may not show up on the leader board but did really contribute.

also if there are no repair bills, it would reduce the need to play smart. currently you play in a way to do the most damage and take the least. if there was no repair the whole game would shift to purely wanting to do the most damage.

oh and pugs would be even worse off if we move to a purely performance system.

[Vermaxx]

Repairs aren't immersion. People are not so broke in this patch that they have to choose what to repair and what not to.

They either do no repairs for the free bullshart that isn't working right (you should be repaired up to 25%, and nothing if you were above that); or they just repair/rearm without looking.

Remove repairs, because no one can drop without being at full. Then they can stop working on how to balance damaged weapons and equipment, and code in how those items perform when damaged, heavily damaged, and almost destroyed. Ammo could theoretically let you choose whether you reload or not, but it should not be giving people a 75% free fill. That basically means you just take out a heatsink or something and add a ton of ammo you don't need to boost your free load level.

Losses could then pay next to nothing, since all the money you get is 'after taxes.' Of course it means that the trial grind would essentially kill the game.

[Matist]

I'm trying to think of a "pro" for a repair system and the only thing that comes to mind is it could be considered a balance mechanic for fielding a really expensive mech. But I don't think that pro is enough to have the mechanic in place when removing it would deal with the afk/botters and get rid of suicide rushers and zombie mechs.

The only issue is the reward mechanic couldn't be damage done. It'd need to also allow for spotters/support to get their share.

Edit: Maybe a total field salvage split out to the winning team? You win, you get a nice salvage based on the other teams cbill mech layout. Losing just nets you personal gains($$ for spotting and damage and so on).

Edited by Matist, 02 November 2012 - 07:29 AM.

[Taryys]

Removing R&R is not the solution.

Removing the loss reward and balance out the individual rewards based on the roles and add more teamwork based rewards.

If there is no reward for losing then you cannot farm.

Edited by Taryys, 02 November 2012 - 07:27 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

There are currently extremely high rewards for performance in MWO.

The problem is, 99.5% of players either don't attempt to get them or aren't good enough to attain them.

The latter makes sense with performance rewards. The former is just plain, old stubbornness or lack of knowledge.

If you boost the performance rewards, no one except the 0.5% of players who already earn 300-400k per win will earn any money at all.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

The solution would be to modify the economy so it doesn't reward you for doing NOTHING. Reporting players simply for farming more effectively than you isn't logical and ignores the problem itself.(Newsflash to everyone reporting us)

You can literally join a game, walk off, and you'll get rewarded for it. You can autorun into a wall while game plays and you'll get rewarded for it. You can drop in with 0 weapons, completely unable to fight or assist your team; and you'll get rewarded for it. They are giving you checks for nothing and that's the problem here. They should change the system so that you actually have to shoot an enemy a few times to be eligable for match rewards. This would effectively stop most AFKs and suicide bombers that run in to die with 0 weapons. It won't fully fix the problem(Some will shoot you a few times then still walk off), but it would go a LONG way towards encouraging players to actually fight. Most would conclude: "Well I have to shoot an enemy few times to get paid, I may as well just fight and get the maximum." Currently however the logic is: "I'm being paid whether I do anything or not, so I may well drop in with nothing then go eat a hotpocket while the match runs."

Fix the cause of the problem; don't just settle with plugging leaks and hoping that works.

[Taryys]

Again, Blueten, you are wrong.
We report you for Suicide farming because you are not supposed to and because it destroys the game for others.
We acknowledge that things are broken and want it fixed to so that we do not have this prob.

Bluten, on 02 November 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

The solution would be to modify the economy so it doesn't reward you for doing NOTHING. Reporting players simply for farming more effectively than you isn't logical and ignores the problem itself.(Newsflash to everyone reporting us)

The rest of your post is spot on.

Edited by Taryys, 02 November 2012 - 07:35 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

You're being paid less than half of your possible payout, even on a win, just by showing up.

It's not the Developers' fault that most players just don't know how to earn big bucks and everyone treats the absolute minimum as an "average" baseline.

[IIIuminaughty]

I just say if you leave the game after dying you get nothing. if you dc you get nothing period
actually if you dc before dying you should lose 100k each time you do it/
Now THAT that will stop the ********, and if you just go in game and afk and ur afk for 2 mins after the match starts you get nothing, and are dc'd from game and lose 100k.

Gotta be an assshole some times to stop the other asssholes

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Taryys, on 02 November 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

Again, Blueten, you are wrong.
We report you for Suicide farming because you are not supposed to and because it destroys the game for others.
We acknowledge that things are broken and want it fixed to so that we do not have this prob.




The rest of your post is spot on.

When was I wrong the first time? And you are wrong; most simply want players banned; that's it.(They shouldn't want that at all. It isn't our fault the system is messed up.) But as far as I'm concerned, "all" of what I said was spot on. Btw it's Bluten... and while I give you credit for actually posting something this time other than "REPORTED!!111"; still, stop quoting me.

[zhajin]

StrataDragoon, on 02 November 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

I just say if you leave the game after dying you get nothing. if you dc you get nothing period
actually if you dc before dying you should lose 100k each time you do it/
Now THAT that will stop the ********, and if you just go in game and afk and ur afk for 2 mins after the match starts you get nothing, and are dc'd from game and lose 100k.

Gotta be an assshole some times to stop the other asssholes

except most dc are not intentional... they are the result of a buggy game.

[IIIuminaughty]

zhajin, on 02 November 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

except most dc are not intentional... they are the result of a buggy game.

true but it will stop most intentional dc's like dc 1 SECOND be fore DYING, come on u was in game for that long and all of sudden u dc, bs...so gota be an *** to stop the other *****

[Vlad Ward]

Clearly, someone thought it would be funny to tell those players that Alt+f4 is the eject button.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Vlad Ward, on 02 November 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Clearly, someone thought it would be funny to tell those players that Alt+f4 is the eject button.

We sure need an eject button though lol. I don't know what the benefit/point of using it would be in a game(maybe cheaper repairs?) but it would be cool to have.

[Vlad Ward]

There is a big, red button hanging inside my cockpit. I just want to press it so badly.

[Vermaxx]

Taryys, on 02 November 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

Removing R&R is not the solution.

Removing the loss reward and balance out the individual rewards based on the roles and add more teamwork based rewards.

If there is no reward for losing then you cannot farm.

Removing repair costs would let them remove the loss reward. No one wants to play a game where you need subscription time to make enough on a loss to keep using your baby. The game isn't F2P if you cannot use your bought equipment when you lose frequently.

The game would be a subscription based game where you HAD to be on a team to use your equipment, or you only used trial mechs. People would quit.

Removing repair fees lets them modify pay accordingly. They can even continue to CHARGE repair fees, except make the score screen deduct it.

On a loss you break even, aside from spent ammo. Hell, ammo is free too because it apparently grows on tress in this demo game.

Everything is going to change in CW anyway, so there isn't much point debating things. Matchmaking won't work the same (each battle location will be a different queue, and thus a smaller portion of the playerbase so elo will be hard. Sometimes even WEIGHT FOR WEIGHT will be hard. Costs won't be static because they've already said that losing badly can impact your faction economy. Availability shouldn't be static because it is TOO EASY to add production bonuses to winning planets, and negatives to losing them.

People aren't going to be showing up to bot/afk farm credits in CW unless there is a colosseum game mode that doesn't impact the greater war.

[Daimonos]

It's an interesting suggestion, but Matist is right: part of the current 'balance' is that some items (ferro fibrous being the poster child) cost a lot to repair. So far as I can tell, the economy's about where PGI want it and I doubt it'll change much.

People want to get out of trials and into their own, decent mechs asap. To so this they need CB: it's to be expected that folk will find the best ways to make the most money in the least time, and do that. While we want the answer to be, 'play the game as best you can and try hard to help your team win', there are currently perverse incentives to do otherwise. It's not as bad as it was, but the perverse incentives still exist.

Next Tuesday's change to lock trial mechs in game until it's over will help, but will not be enough. The determined cbill farmer will just cycle through the four available and maybe buy a cheap commando (and not repair it) if they find they get through more than four mechs in the 10-15 minutes needed for a game. Locking all threads that point out this obvious fact will not change it.

I'm concerned since I'll be dropping in four-mech teams plus four randoms from Tuesday. I suggest decreasing the win-bonus by maybe 10k, the loss bonus by 20-30k, and increasing the rewards for target spotting, damage done, components destroyed and the rest. Finally how about adding a 'help' page to the client that explained how rewards are calculated (including salvage) and display the key points every time the game drops into a battle?

-- Δ