49 replies to this topic

[Secundus]

Does anyone else find when they're playing that they don't feel like they're in a big lumbering mech, but instead are just running around in man-sized robots? I feel like there's something missing. I mean I know there are "small" buildings we walk around, but they are so lifeless and lacking detail that there's nothing that says how big that building should be to a person. I can't see why they couldn't add little sprite people fleeing the streets as we approach, or perhaps little sprite animals/aliens in the forests. How about vehicles, military or civilian, littering the streets?

Anyone else have any ideas of ways they could make these Mechs seem as big as they should?

[Ragor]

I assume I see your point.
A map where the scale works for me is River City. Since there are many RL-familiar buildings and assets which gives the player the 'mech feeling'.
Or the mining area on Forrest Colony.

Where the scale IMO does not work at all is on Frozen City since there is no real common flair with it. It's just a white map. With grey blocks.

And the buildings on Caustic Valley do not work as well regarding immersion.
-> Not the kind of builidings the average gamer is familiar with in RL-> can't judge the dimensions and the 'mechish' POV.



What is missing IMO in MWO?

Roads, wrecks, signs etc - stuff a player is familiar with in real life and from common FPS.
"Oh, now I look down on this and that and I am on one level with that roof over there. Ok, I am in ~10m height!"

Edited by Ragor, 04 November 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[Secundus]

Yeah that's what I'm getting at. The maps are so sparse when it comes to details that I don't feel like I'm standing 10m high. Even in River City, I feel like I'm just a normal guy walking around a bunch of miniature un-detailed buildings because there's nothing dynamic about the environment, it's just static. If the buildings were destructible (which Cryengine is capable of) it would probably help a bit. I think a lot would be gained by having little people, and this could be done with small sprites with very little processing power. It could be a client side option since the people wouldn't be part of the game, only the atmosphere.

[Karyudo ds]

This game could use some duck hunt. The very first thing I did in MW3 after walking out of the ocean was large lasering every bird in sight. MW4 saddly turned then into sprites, but it would be nice to see signs of digital life.

[Gunghoe]

I feel big, I even feel pretty big with the commando. The game i feel is doing the best they can, with out adding stuff that is out of gameplay realm. I think I feel bigger than most games of this type. I feel like the commando is at least 6 or 7 storys tall. I dont know how else they can make it feel bigger. you want to be remarkably huge? 25 tons is rather small when you know that an m1 abrams tank is ~67 tons. considering that I feel in a commando like i am at least 2-3X bigger.

Karyudo ds, on 04 November 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

This game could use some duck hunt. The very first thing I did in MW3 after walking out of the ocean was large lasering every bird in sight. MW4 saddly turned then into sprites, but it would be nice to see signs of digital life.

LoL remember Torok 2 seeds of evil? I remember shooting the birds in the first level, so much fun.

The thing is if they add all those extra polygons the game will run worse.

Edited by Gunghoe, 04 November 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[Dakkath]

Most mechs are around 10-20 meters tall. So they aren't giant....typically.

[Valaska]

I like the "MechWarrior Online" billboards in River City, scattered on the buildings.

[Randodan]

I noticed that bushes and shrubbery in general is way to large considering the size of a 'Mech. So yes, I agree with the OP, the immersion of scale seems off. Not sure if that's an engine limitation, but I think that the 'Mechs in the 3D environment were designed like a normal-size person, and assets, such as bushes, trees, etc, were scaled down -- not all of them equally well.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

The best thing for giving a sense of scale is to have familiar objects like roads and cars and houses on the map. The River City map is pretty good at this for obvious reasons and the other maps less so. Beyond this, there are lots of subtle clues that help give a sense of scale. In the real world, large objects are heavy and don't change direction easily. MWO is quite good at this for the heavier mechs which really do feel heavy and ponderous because of their slow responses. Sounds are also very important. MW3 had a nice deep surging drone in the cockpit of moving mechs that just sounded like a big machine ought to sound. MWO does very well here with some nice deep sounds for weapons etc., and I love the way each mech has a different internal sound. Overall, I am very impressed with MWO's representation of scale. I think it's much better than in either MW3 or MW4. Still, it would be nice if they added some more familiar, scale-giving objects to some of the maps. I though MW4 really failed to communicate a feeling of size by getting some very obvious things wrong. Light-mech running animations bounced around so much they looked like mice not house-size machines.

Incidentally, is it just me or is the MWO Frozen City map rubbish compared to the others? It doesn't look remotely convincing to me. Why does a city have only large square blocks without any detail? I hate it.

[J4ckInthebox]

I made a troll thread in the CB forum about that. something like "you are now aware that the mechs we pilot are human size and we fight in huge lansdcape models."

srsly tho, I think it has something to do the focal length.it seems that the world lacks depth.

Edited by J4ckInthebox, 04 November 2012 - 12:42 PM.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Dakkath, on 04 November 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Most mechs are around 10-20 meters tall. So they aren't giant....typically.

I think they're smaller than that, aren't they? From hazy MW4 memories I had in mind that an Atlas was about 13 m tall and things like a typical heavy mech nearer 10 m. Still pretty huge, mind .

[J4ckInthebox]

Quote

I think they're smaller than that, aren't they? From hazy MW4 memories I had in mind that an Atlas was about 13 m tall and things like a typical heavy mech nearer 10 m. Still pretty huge, mind .

It may be the other way around,then. the buildings are too small !

[Dakkath]

RocketDog, on 04 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

I think they're smaller than that, aren't they? From hazy MW4 memories I had in mind that an Atlas was about 13 m tall and things like a typical heavy mech nearer 10 m. Still pretty huge, mind .

I got my data from Sarna.net. I think they're more definitive then the games, but who knows... haha

[Accident]

Destructible environments would help with scale. Seeing trees slowly topple over, or some of the refinery tanks on cauldron explode with billowing smoke and flames would give a sense of scale.

I also remember from I think MW2 that helicopters would sometimes fly by and that you could shoot them down. Seeing a couple of scout copters come buzzing past would help with scale. Same thing with vehicles trying to drive out of the city.

River city could also do with some smaller boats docked along the water. Maybe one or two moored out in the big empty expanse of water.

Lighting is also huge. Imagine river city at dusk with streetlights illuminating points on the ground, neon billboards, flashing dock lights near the water side base. The snow map would benefit from some radio towers with slowly flashing on and off red caution lights (they wouldn't have to illuminate anything so performance impact would be almost nothing. The forest map would benefit from some lights on the mining base. It could also use some illuminated barges out in the water, or even marker buoys with slowly flashing lights (it is shallow water after all). With how dim the map is, it'd probably look pretty solid.

More animated elements would also be appreciated and would give a little more life to the maps. Cranes could be animated on river city, or even have a tanker slowly pulling away. Forest colony could have automated mining robots going about their business in the cave and against the cliffsides. The snow map could have some sort of power generators with spinning dynamos. They could also use these to add some color/light to the map, it *really* needs it. Calderra or whatever it is could have pumps going in the fields and around the crater, sort of oil derrick looking things. This would also break up some of the ugly, boring plains that you fight on there.

Finally wrecked buildings with multiple stories exposed would also give a much better sense of scale. Even some big holes blown in the towers in river city half way up would really add to the scale, and take away the sense of it being a series of boxes.

Anyway this is just some ideas off the top of my head.

-Accident

[Super Mono]

The mechs are mostly walking turrets. Adding stuff like being able to move the arms (either for melee or assisting aiming) would help add to the feeling of piloting a giant robot.

[Secundus]

J4ckInthebox, on 04 November 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

I made a troll thread in the CB forum about that. something like "you are now aware that the mechs we pilot are human size and we fight in huge lansdcape models."

srsly tho, I think it has something to do the focal length.it seems that the world lacks depth.

Hmm, focal length actually could be a part of the issue. The depth of field in the game has been bothering me lately and there doesn't appear to be an option to turn it off. It's like when someone uses shift tilt photography to make a huge landscape look like a miniature.

Edited by Secundus, 04 November 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[Valaska]

Dakkath, on 04 November 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

I got my data from Sarna.net. I think they're more definitive then the games, but who knows... haha

MW4 was decent with scale etc, and they stayed true to it more or less. So you are both right!

[Accident]

Yeah the DoF is really annoying tbh, good catch on that.

-Accident

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Accident, on 04 November 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

River city could also do with some smaller boats docked along the water. Maybe one or two moored out in the big empty expanse of water.

Excellent idea!

[MacKerris]

The scale is often wrong. For example a Semitrailer should be 1/3 to 1/2 the height of a smaller Mech. For some reason they are quite a bit smaller. While this issue has bothered me a bit, it doesn't really change the game.