164 replies to this topic

[Yeach]

Since I am the master of polls... no not really.

Just making this one about different stats for different manufacturer of the same weapon.
Should different manufacturers of the same type of weapon have the same stats or should they be allowed to vary?

For example
Medium laser TT damage is 5 (for 10 secs).
Martell Medium Laser
Damage = 2
Recycle = 4 secs

Diverse Optic Medium Laser
Damage = 2.5
Recycle = 5 secs

Intek Medium Laser
Damage = 5
Recycle = 10 secs

or should they all have the same stats?

editted poll

Edited by Yeach, 30 April 2012 - 08:46 PM.

[JadeTimberwolf]

Not only would there be too much work to rebalance everything but since MWO is going to be based mostly off of the TT ruleset you would then need to take into account that in TT there are no such rules, a PPC is a PPC regardless of who makes it (the 1 exception to that is when dealing with Clan tech)

evidence to my claim of based off of TT ruleset

Q. How loyal will MechWarrior® Online™ be to the tabletop rules (heat management, melee, armor penetration, etc.)?

A. We are adhering very closely to the BattleTech® tabletop rules. Some mechanics in the tabletop version of the game do not translate well into a videogame and we are coming up with our own rule sets that mitigate these differences in an intuitive and fun manner.

Edited by JadeTimberwolf, 16 April 2012 - 07:00 PM.

[Yeach]

I'm not changing the TT stats; just the various interpretations.

[Gun Bear]

Ehhhh naw too much work. If you've ever coded even a simple game you would know what kind of work goes into it.

[Pale Rider 010]

JadeTimberwolf, on 16 April 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Not only would there be too much work to rebalance everything but since MWO is going to be based mostly off of the TT ruleset you would then need to take into account that in TT there are no such rules, a PPC is a PPC regardless of who makes it (the 1 exception to that is when dealing with Clan tech)

It is important to note, however, that TT rules are for a turn based game (10 second turns, if I remember right.) By those rules, all that mattered was that a Medium Laser does 5 damage in 10 seconds. It didn't matter at all if it was a shot every five seconds, or a big one every ten seconds, or just a weak continuous beam that stays on target for ten solid seconds.

In a real time game, that matters. If the decision is, ultimately, one set of stats for all medium lasers, then that's fine, but don't justify it by trying to directly port turn based rules to a real time game. Sometimes they just don't translate well.

[Motionless]

I got this ER PPC on home-shopping-interstellar-Television for only 20 payments of 19.99 C-bills!

*it explodes on first use*

[JadeTimberwolf]

I didn't say it meant we would have to change the TT stats, just that following the TT rules as a basis changing the stats of one PPC over another just because of manufacture wouldn't be proper, also if my memory of Lore serves me right all companies that make the different weapons are using what can be considered (using jargon from another game) a SCT or Standard Construction Template, much of what is used at the current timeline has been in use and following the same blueprints that are at least 600-700 years old for the most part and those blueprints have worked fine up until now so there has been little want or need to upgrade or modify the designs.

[Kartr]

No, every time you add a different incarnation of the same weapon it would require balancing against every other weapon in the game to ensure it wasn't to powerful. They might all do same amount of damage in a given time, but depending on how they apply that damage one manufacturers version could become the obvious choice.

Simply put there's to much work and to great a chance to unbalance the game for every manufacturer to have their own unique version of the same weapon.

Also for AC/s there are certain constraints that different versions would still have to conform to which makes the variation less pronounced.

[Lt muffins]

Well maybe add different manufacterors (butchered that word) with different stats on down the road, it doesnt all have to be released all in one go. but for it to be like this at release .... no. down the road like towards winter or next year. yes

[Orzorn]

The gamer inside of me wants more variety.

The software developer inside of me hates variety and wants it to die because I have to code more.

[Thornn]

Yeach, on 16 April 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

I'm not changing the TT stats; just the various interpretations.

So thats just like..your opinion, man?

[Jonas]

I voted no. But only because the lower damage weapons would be replaced to quickly I mean the cost difference wouldn't be that great.

[Yeach]

Thornn, on 16 April 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

So thats just like..your opinion, man?

Lol yeah.

[UncleKulikov]

I want different variants, like semi auto, full auto and burst autocannons.

[ENDMYSUFFERING]

I think it would be nice, and give even more variation for weapons depending on what you need to do, like the example in your post, you could have either a faster ROF for hit and run sorts of things or more damage for brawling.

[Kudzu]

I don't see the time and effort it would take designing, coding, and balancing this to be worth what we would get out of it in the end. So while I think it would be neat to have I'd rather see that energy being spent on more mechs/maps/ect.

[Victor Morson]

I voted yes, but I also want them to keep some things canon and uniform, like weight and space. Small advantages due to brand would be pretty neat and in canon for the universe, even if it's been unrepresented in the board game mechanics.

This could include:

• Tiny range changes - 15-30 meters here and there
  
• Discharge Durations - 0.2 seconds higher/lower on energy discharges
  
• Small damage changes - in the range of a couple percent
  
• Small heat output changes - again, in the range of a couple percent

It'd just be neat to see the fluff various weapon brands come into play and give an extra layer to the most extreme gear head style players of optimization, and offer different trade-offs on that level. (i.e. one Large Laser might have 30m enhanced range, but take another 0.2 seconds to discharge it's full damage).

Kudzu, on 16 April 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

I don't see the time and effort it would take designing, coding, and balancing this to be worth what we would get out of it in the end. So while I think it would be neat to have I'd rather see that energy being spent on more mechs/maps/ect.

It is a minor fluff system for sure; really the coding time wouldn't be that big of a concern on this one. Just copy an existing weapon (say, a medium laser), give it a new name and mildly alter it's firing stats. Balancing would be the bigger issue, but that's fairly easy to handle by establishing a basic rule set for each brand.

i.e. Lord's Light (a company that makes lasers) might universally have slightly hotter, slightly faster discharging energy weapons. Their competitor might have, across the board, slightly more damage but slightly less range and a longer discharge.

In that way you can balance each company like a "perk." Again, all this stuff has been talked about in the canon fluff, it's just that the board game represents high-numbers (not enough to represent subtle differences) and it's assumed over a period of a round, the average damage and such works out to be about the same.

Anyway, just saying establishing rules-for-brands would make the whole thing pretty managable in terms of balance, instead of modifying every single gun in the game with five specialized indie versions.

Edited by Victor Morson, 16 April 2012 - 07:48 PM.

[Kartr]

UncleKulikov, on 16 April 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I want different variants, like semi auto, full auto and burst autocannons.

No such thing as a semi auto AC. Unless you count the Heavy/Medium/Light Cannons.

Full auto is the RAC

Burst is the basic AC and the UAC though the UAC fires two bursts in the amount of time it takes an AC to fire and reload.

[Siilk]

I'm all for adding diversity, it wouldn't be that hard to implement and balance, a lot could be balanced by price and maintenance cost alone. Oh, and all the different lines of weapons don't have to be implemented right away, devs could gradually add them after the launch. This would give them more time to balance things and provide a constant flow of tiny new things for the players to use while they are waiting for some major additions like ER weapons or RACs.

[pursang]

Nah, too much effort for too little return.