97 replies to this topic

[Voidsinger]

This one is straight out of Solaris VII tabletop rules.

For each additional Streak launcher on a firing circuit, it requires an additional second to lockon.

Now, this is something that would make 2-3 Streaks still playable, but above that, lockon times would really reduce the rate of fire. (After all, the data needs to be updated to the missiles constantly until they are fired).

Add in a breaking of lock after missiles are fired (clearing of buffer data?), and you get Streaks still being extremely useful in small numbers for self-defence, and light mechs (ammunition and heat conservation).

Given they are looking at multiple weapons of the same type in the same location generating more heat (which is a function of the hardpoint system, and beyond player control), I think the extra time would be reasonable, and more balancing.

ATTENTION: I have reread the actual Solaris VII rules on this. They did actually state it is a +1 penalty to the target number per extra launcher, not a time penalty. I am sorry I mislead people. However, that said, because Streaks do not fire without a lock, this does translate well to extra time being required for a lock, and my original recommendation that PGI look at this stands.

Edited by Voidsinger, 25 November 2012 - 03:17 PM.

[Deadoon]

Interesting way to prevent boating of close in secondary wepons, makes sense really, if you have more things that need to get a lock on it will increase the lock on timer.

[Ceribus]

I like it as it only nerfs the Boaters who are causing the issues

[Noth]

This is a really good idea. I approve.

[Bru1zer]

Great idea.

[Skyfaller]

I like it. Alternatively they could just make the lock be lost after every shot.

[iminbagdad]

+1

[Voidsinger]

Just a few additional thoughts:

On breaking lock - For less than 3 launchers this may not have too much of an effect at all, given the 3 second cooldown time between shots.

On reasons for delay - Unlike LRMs, which can receive in flight updated targeting information, Streaks are fire and forget. That means there is a great deal of data to be processed, since there must also be predictive targeting included. Position of launchers on the mech also has an effect on the exact data the launcher must receive from the fire control computer.

I must add, that I do use Streaks myself quite a bit (1-3 launchers). However, I find this a way to not overnerf Streaks (although you can kill the cockpit rock quite happily). It also has the benefit of being canon, and therefore should not upset too many people (except Streak boaters).

[HlynkaCG]

That's actually quite clever.

Keeps Streaks powerful but discourages their use as a mech's primary (or in some cases only) weapon.

Thumbs up to you sir.

[TostitoBandito]

+1

Great suggestion.

[Tarek Saron]

+1 Sounds really good actually.

I particularly like the idea of having to reacquire lock after each shot. Right now I think it's a bit too hard to lose lock with SSRMs, particularly on mechs with ridiculously wide upper torso turning arcs. (you know who you are!)

[F0gh0rn Legh0rn]

yep... good idea... now please solve the gause cat.

[White Bear 84]

+1 very good idea indeed to stop the boating!

[Flash Yoghurt]

This is the best idea to solve the streak problems I've seen until now!

[Voidsinger]

Garen Thorn, on 25 November 2012 - 01:43 AM, said:

yep... good idea... now please solve the gause cat.

Working on that one.

Seems to me, the Gausscat has only 5 possible solutions
- Move Ballistic hardpoints to the arms (thus keeping with the Catapult philosophy of primary weapons being arm mounted)
- Move Ballistic hardpoints to centre torso (allows the K2 to remain as originally stated pre-gauss)
- Create a size distinction in regards to hardpoints
- Fix the convergence system, so arm mounted ballistics can compete on a more level field.
- Change the K2 design so it has great bulging torsos when gauss wepons or AC/20s are mounted.

These all rely on PGI deciding to do something, not me. Sorry.

[Boris The Spider]

+1, stack-nerf is what I would have suggested, good that it has origin in TT rules. Also :

Voidsinger, on 25 November 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

- Fix the convergence system, so arm mounted ballistics can compete on a more level field.
- Change the K2 design so it has great bulging torsos when gauss wepons or AC/20s are mounted.

+1 (include PPC and all ACs 5 and above)

[_Rorschach_]

A very interesting suggestion.

But I think breaking lock and +1s to lock per launcher would be too much. We know overnerf sometimes happens, so I'd like to see them try those changes one after the other and also maybe not start with a whole second per launcher but maybe 0.2.

Breaking lock might also be a problem for small mechs. Reacquiring a lock each time a Commando fires one of his two streaks is a pretty big DPS nerf. Would also make chain firing for heat management useless for streaks. Maybe still viable if the time to lock for a single launcher is reduced.

Or maybe a growing penalty for growing numbers of launchers? +0.1 for the 2nd launcher, +0.2 for the 3rd, +0.4 for the 4th, ... So an A1 streak cat would have +0.1+0.2+0.4+0.8+1.6 = +3.1s to lock.

[Voidsinger]

pack wolf, on 25 November 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

A very interesting suggestion.

But I think breaking lock and +1s to lock per launcher would be too much. We know overnerf sometimes happens, so I'd like to see them try those changes one after the other and also maybe not start with a whole second per launcher but maybe 0.2.

Breaking lock might also be a problem for small mechs. Reacquiring a lock each time a Commando fires one of his two streaks is a pretty big DPS nerf. Would also make chain firing for heat management useless for streaks. Maybe still viable if the time to lock for a single launcher is reduced.

Or maybe a growing penalty for growing numbers of launchers? +0.1 for the 2nd launcher, +0.2 for the 3rd, +0.4 for the 4th, ... So an A1 streak cat would have +0.1+0.2+0.4+0.8+1.6 = +3.1s to lock.

I understand your concerns. And you are right on a number of them.

Use Interlocks does break chain fire a bit, however, it is Streakcats chainfiring their 6 Streaks that forms a great deal of the problem, especially with cockpit rock. It would essentially mean prioritising target lock time versus heat management.

An increasing incremental penalty is an idea I like.

I didn't mean what I put in my original post to be a be all and end all solution, but rather a starting point at looking for a different way to approach the problem.

[Adridos]

A great idea, indeed.

[Chou Senwan]

I would love it if they explored this idea.