46 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

It seems that in this current iteration of Online Game development, a lot of game developers are trying to create *complex* game systems with checks and balances. The problem is, they don't adequately test the game or ignore their fan base on their *gut* instinct, and then the player base revolts.

-EA got the rights to make a Star Wars MMO by buying Bioware. The lead game designer liked Crowd Control mechanics, I mean really liked Crowd Control, more than making love to his wife or a drinking a good beer kind of like. Six months into release, SWTOR is now Free to Play and the founders of Bioware are fired.

-EA has a very tiny cash cow with the Mass Effect franchise. The lead writer, broke with prior work and wrote his own *vision* to end the Mass Effect trilogy. The fans revolted over what was a very poorly thought out ending.

Now we come to ECM. It is a good idea, but the counters to it were extremely lacking. The clustering of groups using it and the imbalance in match making is a no brainer for what is occurring. I doubt a 750M Tag is going to be much of a counter to ECM. The only counter to ECM is ECM. IF the game developer understood the community, they would have implemented ECM in a way that it can still shut down lock on weapons, but with adequate counters in place, like gee I don't know ensure that both sides have close to the same number of ECM's in the first place.

From what I've been reading the lead game designer on ECM, he has no clue what he's wrought. He won't until the monthly numbers of active players come in. Hopefully the mythical Dec 18th patch will address game imbalances.

If not, I guess I can keep playing my Raven 3L or SRM Cat boat. I love playing Call of Mechwarrior Battlefield Bad company 3049.

[GalaxyBluestar]

do what's suggested here:

Heres A Thought About Ecm... What If..

[Rhent]

GalaxyBluestar, on 15 December 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

do what's suggested here:

Heres A Thought About Ecm... What If..

I wish it was that easy. ECM has made the game effectively a direct fire game when there is a great ECM imbalance. I'm actually fine with how ECM is implemented, I just want it be where there isn't such a huge imbalance. ECM becomes a problem when there is 4 ECM vs 0 ECM. Like ridiculous imbalance.

[Wraith05]

Hello again rhent, Figured i'd link your other post for you here since you felt the need to make a 2nd identical point on it:

http://mwomercs.com/...hmaker-for-pug/

All ticking you off aside:

How would people feel about an actual BUFF to the ECM counter?

What I mean is treat the counter like the disrupt, give it a bubble that counters all ECMs withing it's range. That way 1 ECM mech can counter 3-4 ECM disrupts if they stay clustered.

[GalaxyBluestar]

yes yes that's why i posted the link that tells you

A] this is the complaint that goes on and on and on.

B] put you're ideas/arguments into the appropriate feedback section of the forum. you're amongest hundreds if not thousands who are saying exactly the same thing so the best you can do is throw your vote into one of many threads dotted on the forum about this exact same thing.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 15 December 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[Corbon Zackery]

I spent some cash and got ECM Raven just to see what it was like.

I went with 3 small lasers and 2 streak missle launchers.
kept the beagle and ECM, added AMS witch I found out I dont really need since LRMs cant lock me unless a light tags me. Endo and FF since none of my weapon took up more than one slot.

Cons I could lock my streaks onto a mech and knock out any light mech since he would be blanketed with the ECM.

The hardest part was knowing when to break the screen for other mech and go off after a light.

Right now I think in my opion play all Friday and Saturday with a mech without ECM and one that does.

The ECM gives to huge of a advantage it needs to be toned down a lot. It should interfer with LRMs and Streaks but not completely protect you from them. longer lock time. it should make it easy to break a missle lock cause some fuzz to your battle map but thats about it. The Beagle active probe should also be the counter to it.

Its too powerful in its current form.

Thanks

[Wired]

The 8v8 premades can be frustrating. Sometimes you run into teams of All Atlas-D-DCs, with 3 ravens as scouts.

[JP Josh]

not all the ******* counters are in yet take a chill pill before i make you.

[Wired]

JP Josh, on 15 December 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

not all the ******* counters are in yet take a chill pill before i make you.

Hopefully the counters are enough to put some diversity back into the premades.

[JP Josh]

Wired, on 15 December 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Hopefully the counters are enough to put some diversity back into the premades.

eh people will take waht they "think is the best" and no matter how mutch you try their will always be flaver of the months.

still the best distractions i found to be would be a ppc commando they cant do mutch but when they fire the whole enimy team makes em pirority targets dont know why.

hows the latest builds im at job core for a few more months (hope fully goin home for chrismas) i cant play here

really irritates me people complaining about it at least all of you can play.

Edited by JP Josh, 15 December 2012 - 10:27 PM.

[Dasht e Lut]

I'm going to post something her that I posted in the OP's other post earlier tonight. Forgive the duplication, but why rewrite something, yeah?

"Hi Rhent!

I was in a match once, oh, two, three days ago, wherein a candy cane ECM-Raven "requested" that all lights follow it to go out and kill the enemy ECM mechs. This was on Forest. So I followed the candy cane Raven...

And watched it get pummeled to death by a bunch of non-ECM mechs in about 15 seconds. That was by the arch, in that little grotto at the cave exit. Could have happened to anyone who didn't enter that confined space with caution. Especially in a light.

Anyway, the pilot of the now dead candy cane ECM-Raven continued to rant and rant about ECM from beyond the grave on the "All" channel (this was a PuG match). I didn't catch most of what that very frustrated pilot spewed because I was busy running my COM-2D.

Believe it or not we won that match! In spite of the fact that we lost our intrepid ECM-Raven pilot so early in the game. I did pretty good myself that match. Took top slot on the leader board and had three kills! (A vanishingly rare thing indeed!)

My point is this: ECM is nothing more than a tool. If you're a good pilot then it won't matter wether or not you use ECM. But it can help both you and your team. If you're not that great, ECM won't matter either. because someone who can hit what he/she is aiming at with lasers or ballistics won't care if they can lock you or not. You'll still be dead.

As for the uselessness of LRMs? I regularly get splashed across the landscape by them in spite of having ECM. Crud! Maybe TAG is OP?

Cheers!

Dasht"

[Speerit Ward]

Rhent, on 15 December 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

I doubt a 750M Tag is going to be much of a counter to ECM.

Err, false.


-Don't Pug. Form or join a lance
-Load lance with 2 ECM light/meds (1 counter 1 disrupt)
-Send scouts. Switch to dual counter when in close.

-Unload 400-600 missiles per boat in the 30-90 seconds this buys you. (With the added bonus of disorientation the scouts cause)

When this boon runs its course and the hornets are all angry and closing....

-Bust out the TAG, fire more missiles OR
-Simply close range and finish the job. You should all be semi fresh for the fight, while your enemies are gonna have more exposed components than a cheap stripper.

HOW THIS CAN GO WRONG
-Your scouts fail to run their ECM's properly, or kite poorly.
-The enemy is onto you and ignores the scouts, closing distance. (The only real repercussions here is a lessening in the damage you cause before the fight resumes)
-The enemy has at least 3 ECM's, and sets 2 of them to counter QUICKLY.

Still not convinced? Work on that tude' of yours, and message me about joining 'The Sentinel Hardline'. I have spots for all weights.

[Cargo Bane]

Speerit, on 15 December 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

-Don't Pug. Form or join a lance

I have spots for all weights.

In other words, forgot about the game because they will not be financially viable without casual player support. If the only way to play MWO is via Clan/Guild/Raid, then it will not survive.

[Rhent]

Speerit, on 15 December 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Err, false.


-Don't Pug. Form or join a lance
-Load lance with 2 ECM light/meds (1 counter 1 disrupt)
-Send scouts. Switch to dual counter when in close.

-Unload 400-600 missiles per boat in the 30-90 seconds this buys you. (With the added bonus of disorientation the scouts cause)

When this boon runs its course and the hornets are all angry and closing....

-Bust out the TAG, fire more missiles OR
-Simply close range and finish the job. You should all be semi fresh for the fight, while your enemies are gonna have more exposed components than a cheap stripper.

HOW THIS CAN GO WRONG
-Your scouts fail to run their ECM's properly, or kite poorly.
-The enemy is onto you and ignores the scouts, closing distance. (The only real repercussions here is a lessening in the damage you cause before the fight resumes)
-The enemy has at least 3 ECM's, and sets 2 of them to counter QUICKLY.

Still not convinced? Work on that tude' of yours, and message me about joining 'The Sentinel Hardline'. I have spots for all weights.

I have no desire to join any clan. If Pirahna can actually implement the Houses and they find a way to put in actual House Units, I'd be interested. Back in MPBT they had Houses implemented with leaders and it was actually a pretty damn good system. I have little belief that Pirahna will implement that, at the best its going to be a bunch of random merc units, no thanks.

That being said, I'd rather PUG in the grand scheme.

If you want to form a lance as a premade that would work great. Then again, I don't see this being a game that forces everyone to join a Clan to play. If thats the case, a lot of people including myself, will shake our shoes at the door and quite happily leave.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Rhent, on 15 December 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

It seems that in this current iteration of Online Game development, a lot of game developers are trying to create *complex* game systems with checks and balances. The problem is, they don't adequately test the game or ignore their fan base on their *gut* instinct, and then the player base revolts.

-EA got the rights to make a Star Wars MMO by buying Bioware. The lead game designer liked Crowd Control mechanics, I mean really liked Crowd Control, more than making love to his wife or a drinking a good beer kind of like. Six months into release, SWTOR is now Free to Play and the founders of Bioware are fired.

-EA has a very tiny cash cow with the Mass Effect franchise. The lead writer, broke with prior work and wrote his own *vision* to end the Mass Effect trilogy. The fans revolted over what was a very poorly thought out ending.

Now we come to ECM. It is a good idea, but the counters to it were extremely lacking. The clustering of groups using it and the imbalance in match making is a no brainer for what is occurring. I doubt a 750M Tag is going to be much of a counter to ECM. The only counter to ECM is ECM. IF the game developer understood the community, they would have implemented ECM in a way that it can still shut down lock on weapons, but with adequate counters in place, like gee I don't know ensure that both sides have close to the same number of ECM's in the first place.

From what I've been reading the lead game designer on ECM, he has no clue what he's wrought. He won't until the monthly numbers of active players come in. Hopefully the mythical Dec 18th patch will address game imbalances.

If not, I guess I can keep playing my Raven 3L or SRM Cat boat. I love playing Call of Mechwarrior Battlefield Bad company 3049.

according to the devs in PCgamer, its "working as intended" so
...yeah

Wired, on 15 December 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Hopefully the counters are enough to put some diversity back into the premades.

according to the devs, op equipment that everyone uses and makes them all use the same mechs makes the game MORE diverse, not less

[Heeden]

Rhent, on 15 December 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

It seems that in this current iteration of Online Game development, a lot of game developers are trying to create *complex* game systems with checks and balances. The problem is, they don't adequately test the game or ignore their fan base on their *gut* instinct, and then the player base revolts.

-EA got the rights to make a Star Wars MMO by buying Bioware. The lead game designer liked Crowd Control mechanics, I mean really liked Crowd Control, more than making love to his wife or a drinking a good beer kind of like. Six months into release, SWTOR is now Free to Play and the founders of Bioware are fired.

-EA has a very tiny cash cow with the Mass Effect franchise. The lead writer, broke with prior work and wrote his own *vision* to end the Mass Effect trilogy. The fans revolted over what was a very poorly thought out ending.

SW:tOR didn't fail because there was too much CC, it failed because it offered an excellent levelling experience with lacklustre end-game so everyone levelled one or more characters then went back to their old MMO.

The main reason for the revolt was the fact bioware social has one of the worst communities on the 'net, people who were quite happy to exploit a charity to push their agenda. Peeps were a little unhappy about the vagueness of the ending, but once an extended cut had been put out to hold their hands most folks seemed quite pleased.

The bioware founders weren't fired, they resigned, presumably because their efforts to create (what I consider to be) one of the greatest and most immersive story-telling experiences in gaming resulted in a tear-filled ****-storm from clueless trolls.

Edited by Heeden, 16 December 2012 - 12:05 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

Speerit, on 15 December 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Err, false.


-Don't Pug. Form or join a lance
-Load lance with 2 ECM light/meds (1 counter 1 disrupt)
-Send scouts. Switch to dual counter when in close.

-Unload 400-600 missiles per boat in the 30-90 seconds this buys you. (With the added bonus of disorientation the scouts cause)

When this boon runs its course and the hornets are all angry and closing....

-Bust out the TAG, fire more missiles OR
-Simply close range and finish the job. You should all be semi fresh for the fight, while your enemies are gonna have more exposed components than a cheap stripper.

HOW THIS CAN GO WRONG
-Your scouts fail to run their ECM's properly, or kite poorly.
-The enemy is onto you and ignores the scouts, closing distance. (The only real repercussions here is a lessening in the damage you cause before the fight resumes)
-The enemy has at least 3 ECM's, and sets 2 of them to counter QUICKLY.

Still not convinced? Work on that tude' of yours, and message me about joining 'The Sentinel Hardline'. I have spots for all weights.

Dont pug is not an answer you tard. Do you seriously think League of Legends survives on organized team play? No, no it doesnt and ive been playing it since 2 weeks into the CBT.


Why even have a solo q then ???????????????????????????????????

[GalaxyBluestar]

SpiralRazor, on 16 December 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

Dont pug is not an answer you tard. Do you seriously think League of Legends survives on organized team play? No, no it doesnt and ive been playing it since 2 weeks into the CBT.


Why even have a solo q then ???????????????????????????????????

some people think because the current gamemodes/gameplay involves team work that they can act like elitest #^%#% damning all those potential customers and to hell with newbs, puggers or anyone just wanting a causal game of mech warrior.

[Harmatia]

Cargo Bane, on 15 December 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

In other words, forgot about the game because they will not be financially viable without casual player support. If the only way to play MWO is via Clan/Guild/Raid, then it will not survive.

Yep. And the easiest way to do this is to (currently, at least) separate groups from the PUG. Do 4 on 4 PUG/group, and 8 on 8 PUG/group. Pretty much every multiple player game has various modes of play, most of which are populated by players. There is absolutely no reason this cannot be part of MWO. Or a top priority of the developer.

I suppose a 3rd person mode would solve this... right?

[shadN]

Aherm, you guys sound like an old couple. Sorry to say that and no offense meant.

I think with a proper match making the problems of to pug or not to pug could be solved. Just dont put noobs into games with players having 1 bazillion of matches played...

AND I am absolutely sure that the dev are going to balance ecm right. Because they did with a lot of issues. (But the netcode, )

Edited by shadN, 16 December 2012 - 01:06 AM.