32 replies to this topic

[Vexgrave Lars]

TruePoindexter, on 17 December 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

Ok take a breath and try to take some time before typing out your thoughts because that's really hard to follow.

My understanding is that you're saying that people could just suicide grind and earn money anyway just at a slower rate. My question to that is - is that bad? Take a look at almost all F2P social games. Nothing in them requires any measure of skill to acquire - only time and how much money you spend to shorten that time. They do quite well regardless.

As for MWO it seems that the devs accounted for this already given that the amount earned for being in the bottom of a match is dramatically less than being in the top. Combine that with kill/kill assist bonuses and there's plenty of incentive to win.

Suicide is not what I mean. I play the game. I will say that with the now linear accrual of goods, sans cost for maintaining your equipment.

Your elite status as the epic uber god, relies solely on your right to brag about a K/D ratio and the number of accouterments you can afford.

Thus if it takes you 10 years at 1 match a day, you will never have at risk, anything other than a delay in the bad players valuable to a good players valuables.

Being a good pilot and the reward for that, or the "carrot", is now defined by the distance is it tied to down the stick, rather than as a reward in and of itself.

That you are "so super good", to have been affording repairs and upkeep, just became meaningless. Your shiney gear, is the same gear I can have eventually.. even if I suck, and I can show up with it on the battle field every time you do.

We are finally equal, depending on how much time you have.

Is it bad.. hell no.. Its living legends, but you get to start and end a match with your assault mech rather than earning it per match.. and without a respawn, yet (please don't).

[Deadoon]

Skandrannon, on 17 December 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

No RnR takes out some of the balance.
I'm not going to open up an old rant... if you've got a clue, you can find a spot and rain missiles, ECM or not. Part of the balance was that it cost money to get more missiles, especially with Artemis. Before, you had to be kind of good to make good money with an Artemis Missile boat.

No repair? How does my mech get fixed after both arms, a leg, and my right torso gets blown away?

Is the mech fairy in the next patch?

-Skan

You got 75% free armor and ammo, and 25% item health and structure for free. People running missile boats usually went with the 75% free ammo.

[TruePoindexter]

Vexgrave Lars, on 17 December 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Suicide is not what I mean. I play the game. I will say that with the now linear accrual of goods, sans cost for maintaining your equipment.

Your elite status as the epic uber god, relies solely on your right to brag about a K/D ratio and the number of accouterments you can afford.

Thus if it takes you 10 years at 1 match a day, you will never have at risk, anything other than a delay in the bad players valuable to a good players valuables.

Being a good pilot and the reward for that, or the "carrot", is now defined by the distance is it tied to down the stick, rather than as a reward in and of itself.

That you are "so super good", to have been affording repairs and upkeep, just became meaningless. Your shiney gear, is the same gear I can have eventually.. even if I suck, and I can show up with it on the battle field every time you do.

We are finally equal, depending on how much time you have.

Is it bad.. hell no.. Its living legends, but you get to start and end a match with your assault mech rather than earning it per match.. and without a respawn, yet (please don't).

The problem with that logic is that it works with the belief that the goal of the game is then to acquire the gear as opposed to win matches and in the future territory. Mechs are the means through which to play but are not in and of themselves the real goal.

[Skandrannon]

Deadoon, on 17 December 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

You got 75% free armor and ammo, and 25% item health and structure for free. People running missile boats usually went with the 75% free ammo.

and yet it still cost 20-40k to top off.. and you had to repair or go into the next match already hurt.

There's no drawback to getting blown all to hell now....

Also... why the hell do you get 2500 more money for shooting someone a few times, instead of killing them?

[MacKerris]

I suspect that we will have even more Rambos than before now that there is no penalty for doing so. Without a cost to rearm or repair I may as well let my mech get totaled on every match. As only time will tell I can't say if more Rambos are what we need or not........



@Skandrannon

In a team game, who kills is less important than that the enemy IS killed. Therefore when it can take a minute or more of shooting to kill one player, who finishes him off is unimportant. In a team kdr is also useless and says nothing.

Edited by MacKerris, 17 December 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[ExplodedZombie]

A mildly entertaining post, but you're wrong. No one cared about RnR in the first place. PUGs always charged in. Silly

[Skandrannon]

MacKerris, on 17 December 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

I suspect that we will have even more Rambos than before now that there is no penalty for doing so. Without a cost to rearm or repair I may as well let my mech get totaled on every match. As only time will tell I can't say if more Rambos are what we need or not........



@Skandrannon

In a team game, who kills is less important than that the enemy IS killed. Therefore when it can take a minute or more of shooting to kill one player, who finishes him off is unimportant. In a team kdr is also useless and says nothing.

I get what you're saying. I'm not super worried about my stats, but now someone gets more of a bonus if they run by and shoot a mech a few times, vs. if I actually stick it out, and throw down with someone.
One of us is going to die, and the other is more than likely going to be crippled the rest of the match.
But the guy who ran by, and shot em in the back gets more of a reward...

I guess I'm splitting hairs.. the whole "kill" thing is a bit off too... person who did the most dmg should get the credit for the kill... but thats another rant...

[M4NTiC0R3X]

Well my kill death ratio likes the sound of that, shame my combat score won't allow my me to play with such fodder in the near future....

Better work on it while I can.

~ A PUG

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 17 December 2012 - 06:47 PM.

[Dirkdaring]

Please charge, my gaussapult loves suicidal mechs.

[StalaggtIKE]

Vexgrave Lars, on 17 December 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

But this is what I love the most. The return of the noob charge. With no fear of any cost for failure, noobs will again run headlong into incoming fire, full throttle, Manga Samurai style not a drip of sweat crossing their brows, for concerns that there will be any penalty, just the next match.

This has been going on since 12/03. The cause was ECM.

[Vexgrave Lars]

TruePoindexter, on 17 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

The problem with that logic is that it works with the belief that the goal of the game is then to acquire the gear as opposed to win matches and in the future territory. Mechs are the means through which to play but are not in and of themselves the real goal.

I thought the goal was to have fun... and with or without R/R, I suppose on the battlefield is the only place that the fun is, supposed to be?

Maybe its enough to say, a part of the fun, for me was the acquisition of wealth through skill, and a piece of that challenge has now been muted.

Now its more like US football.. 2 teams trying to get a to the end-zone, no one is getting hurt on the field. When it used to be the the Coliseum of Rome, and the risk was at least virtually tangible.

Again, I will reiterate, R/R's effect on the game was broken, but rather than fix it with measured moderate steps, its been scrapped. That's the wrong part.

But i figured out a new "mythology" to live with it. I I look at it this way, we Mechwarriors all have investment managers that guarantee our repairs are funded, make sure we are rearmed, by taking a percentage of our wins to pay for our losses.

Whatever gets one by, right?

[Ranger207]

I'm not reading all of these posts, but the way I read the Command Chair post was that RNR was not removed. Instead, you automaticly repair and rearm at the end of a match, and the money is immediantly removed from how much you made.
Example: you win. No kills, no damage, no nothing. You earn 25,000 CB. You take, say, 2,000 CB worth of damage. The screen at the end of the match will show that you earned 23,000 CB.

[SneakyBastd]

The only problem I can see with this reward economy is that the idiots who suicide run at the start of the game are still going to make decent cash. They will charge in, do a single point of damage to every mech they can, and take 5 or 6 "assist" bonuses.
They should make it so you can only get an assist if you do atleast 10% (open to debate) damage to someone.