10 replies to this topic

[StalaggtIKE]

The increased TAG range is a nice attempt towards balance. It still does not change the fact that ECM is grossly useful for its critical slots and tonnage. Though it may not be OP it is not balanced. There are ways around it; a superior team of non-ECM will defeat an unorganized ECM team. However the fact remains that ECM creates a handicap situation for teams without versus teams that do. That's not to say that ECM is all bad. It does help with cutting back on LRM/SSRM spam.

The invisible elephant in the room has to do with enemy detection. Currently, radar has the ability to auto detect an enemy from 800m away, without any effort. ECM cuts this all the way down to 200m. That being said the greatest injustice is the fact that the ECM team will out detect the enemy by 600m or 4x the distance. This gives a huge advantage to one side. To fix this, radar detection range should be reduced. I propose the following simple change:

• Decrease auto detect range of radar, for everyone, to 500m (from 800m).

That's it. ECM remains unchanged and keeps its current abilities. While the huge disparity between enemy detection is ratified.



Reddit post: http://www.reddit.com/r/mwo/

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 19 December 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[Shae Starfyre]

I would concur at first, but when/if bigger maps come into play, then no.

Also, when I notice that there are very little ECM on my side or none at all, I use terrain to mask my movements.

Only when you pop-out for a look do you run the risk of detection. Coordinate with any scouts on the team, etc.

On a side note, the idea is not bad, but wouldn't it make more sense to make the ECM target detectable faster, say at 300m. This would give you more time to react and not hinder long range detection for other roles?

[StalaggtIKE]

Aphoticus, on 19 December 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

On a side note, the idea is not bad, but wouldn't it make more sense to make the ECM target detectable faster, say at 300m.

This doesn't change the fact that you could be spotted from 800m away without much effort.

Quote

This would give you more time to react and not hinder long range detection for other roles?

Perhaps this is where BAP can become useful. Give it a buff in range detection. TAG can be coupled with MK I Eyeball to spot even further.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 19 December 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[Shae Starfyre]

As far as being spotted with no effort at 800, I have come upon the enemy in assault rigs without ECM by using terrain without detection. You only get spotted when you come out into the open. Just saying.

[StalaggtIKE]

Aphoticus, on 19 December 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

As far as being spotted with no effort at 800, I have come upon the enemy in assault rigs without ECM by using terrain without detection. You only get spotted when you come out into the open. Just saying.

False. You are not immune to being spotted, just because you are not in the open. Seems you missed the point. The point is to lower the spotting advantage gap between ECM versus non-ECM pilots.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 19 December 2012 - 08:30 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

(I don't have an ECM Mech... yet) but I am going to assume that an ECM carrying Mech has no disruption to their ability to Target enemy Mechs out to 800m while their ECM is in Disrupt mode?

If that is the case, then perhaps Mechs with ECM in Disrupt mode should have their ability to target enemy Mechs reduced to, say 360m...

[StalaggtIKE]

MaddMaxx, on 19 December 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

(I don't have an ECM Mech... yet) but I am going to assume that an ECM carrying Mech has no disruption to their ability to Target enemy Mechs out to 800m while their ECM is in Disrupt mode?

That is correct. They cut off enemies detection range down to 200m, while keeping theirs at 800m. Giving them 4x the distance to prepare:

• mark targets
  
• lock-on missiles
  
• gather intel

This is a huge advantage in itself.

Quote

If that is the case, then perhaps Mechs with ECM in Disrupt mode should have their ability to target enemy Mechs reduced to, say 360m...

That would even the battlefield a bit. However, the current standard radar detection of 800m is a bit much. Which limits scouting making ECM equipped light mechs more favorable. Instead I suggest that radar detection gets reduced. The reason I chose 500m is because you can easily see the enemy by that point, it is pretty silly that you can't select him as a target.

[Sh4nk0h0l1c]

StalaggtIKE, on 19 December 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

The increased TAG range is a nice attempt towards balance. It still does not change the fact that ECM is grossly useful for its critical slots and tonnage. Though it may not be OP it is not balanced. There are ways around it; a superior team of non-ECM will defeat an unorganized ECM team. However the fact remains that ECM creates a handicap situation for teams without versus teams that do. That's not to say that ECM is all bad. It does help with cutting back on LRM/SSRM spam.

The invisible elephant in the room has to do with enemy detection. Currently, radar has the ability to auto detect an enemy from 800m away, without any effort. ECM cuts this all the way down to 200m. That being said the greatest injustice is the fact that the ECM team will out detect the enemy by 600m or 4x the distance. This gives a huge advantage to one side. To fix this, radar detection range should be reduced. I propose the following simple change:

• Decrease auto detect range of radar, for everyone, to 500m (from 800m).

That's it. ECM remains unchanged and keeps its current abilities. While the huge disparity between enemy detection is ratified.




Reddit post: http://www.reddit.com/r/mwo/

I like your idea, but:

1. If bigger maps make it into the game, that reduced radar rrange would be... lets say bad....

2. You would effect the Effective range of LRMs (800m / 1000m)

Still your idea is quite good, but i would change it a little:

Increase the auto-detect range for mechs being affectet by ECM to 400m (half of normal but double of the current), make missile locks harder to achieve and reduce their homing abilitys slightly...

That should be the only effects ECM should have (IMO)

[Zyllos]

Here is my suggestions on modifying ECM without actually changing it:

Quote

Honestly, the implementation of ECM seems ok. Just the numbers seem off.

- Make 1 Counter ECM counter all Disrupt ECM in range. I personally think making 1 Counter ECM work against all Disrupt ECM a big one because then it isn't always about fielding more ECMs, but instead using your Disrupt ECM to scout and not run into another equipped ECM mech to be countered and open for locking weaponry. This also doesn't make the Atlas D-DC team (4+ ECMs) just invincible against lock-on weapons because your team didn't decide to take 5+ other ECM mechs. This is really a way to give a reason for a team to take mechs other than ECM but to take at least 1 ECM mech for disruption.

- Make ECM reduce sensor range by 50%, not 75%. ECM is ment for scouting, not keeping certain mechs locked out of firing. Even at 400m sensor range, LRM users will only have 220m worth of workable distance to lock on with missiles while SSRMs will only have 90m.

- Let the BAP display some indication that an ECM equipped mech is within normal sensor range (according to Sarna saying BAP is jammed by ECM but indication is notified). Maybe give BAP users "pings" (kinda like how Thermal Mode shows the ping sweep, which seems like to me PGI is already testing out) so they can spot where ECM mechs are physically at. Once teams start to only take 1 or 2 ECMs, having BAP which gives pings to physical locations could be used to detect where ECM mechs are located at so you could chase the ECM mechs and destroy them with direct fire weapons. Then you might see teams start to take no ECM and work together with BAP users to counter ECM.

- Any mech equipped with ECM, running in Disrupt mode, should not be able to lockon with LRMs/SSRMs. This provides a pro/con for having equipped ECM.

- As many have said, fix the issues with hit detection. This will really help out in the department of having light mechs survive a disproportional amount of fire according to their weight. But this is obvious, just extremely important and I am sure PGI is working on.

Edited by Zyllos, 20 December 2012 - 07:27 AM.

[Chou Senwan]

I would like ECM to shield the mech equipped with it (from artemis, streaks, and long-range targeting). And if the ECM equipped mech targets an enemy within 180 meters, that enemy should be unable to get target locks on anyone. I think that's plenty of value for 1.5 tons of equipment.

I think the total shield of secrecy is too effective now, considering the device's weight.

[Bobzilla]

Aphoticus, on 19 December 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

As far as being spotted with no effort at 800, I have come upon the enemy in assault rigs without ECM by using terrain without detection. You only get spotted when you come out into the open. Just saying.

How do you know what side of terrain to hide on if you don't know where the enemy is?