70 replies to this topic

[JTAlweezy]

I am not saying there is anything wrong with the current skill system, but instead of having to master the same skills over and over again for the same mechs, add some variety.
Have a basic skill like cooldown be a generic skill applied to all mechs, it should take a long time to complete training, but once you finish it it covers all the mechs in your inventory.

Then implement skills that are specific for each class of mech or weapon type, such as LRM Specilization, which would add like 10% to LRM damage per missile.

Then You could do the same for other skills. This way, people can decide on their class of mech and put skill points into that specifically.

This will heavily encourage specilization for each mech and class, it would further increase the dichotomies between each kind of mech for each player.

I suggest something that looks like this. (Note each level requires The Specified EXP per level, IE: to train to level 3 would cost 30k EXP)

Heat Containment: 2% to heat dissipation Per level, or just have it mastered at a certain level.
if it has levels,

EXP Cost Per Level:
Level 1: 5,000 EXP
Level 2: 10,000 EXP
Level 3: 15,000 EXP
Level 4: 20,000 EXP
Level 5: 25,000 EXP

Total Exp to Master: 75,000 EXP

Now thats 10% total just like the devs have for each mech, but now you spend 75k exp and that time required playing the game to apply to every mech you ever own.

Now for like a Specilization Skill,

ECM Effectiveness: Each level increases the effect signal strength of your ECM by 1.5% (Rounding only at level 5)

This is a specilization skill. It can only be applied to mechs that use ECM.

So at level 0 an Ecm will only have an effective range of say 90m. Meaning mechs just over 90m can be locked up to 270m. Cool right, now the guy who is new and not really familiar with things in game has a chance to beat someone who has yet to master ECM.

Exp Cost, and effective strength increase

Level 1: 7,500 EXP 103.5m - 270m
Level 2: 15,000 EXP 121.025m - 270m
Level 3: 22,500 EXP 139.1788m - 270m
Level 4: 30,000 EXP 160.0556m - 270m
Level 5: 37500 EXP 184.0639m - 270m or (180m - 270m) <-maintain Devs intended game play integrity)

Edit: Oh you can even have like a squeeze theorm applied, So for each level, the range of targetability of an ecm mech decreases so for say, each level an ecm mech can be targetted between The below listed levels;
level 1: 90 - 472m
level 2: 121.025 - 410.63m
level 3: 139.178 - 357.07m
level 4: 160.05 - 310.5m
level 5: 184.06 - 270m

Now this would provide some level of protection for players who are not familiar with ECM and how it works initially, and it would also require the pilots of ECM mechs to be more cautious on how they engage; instead of the straight sprint for every group of mechs because its effectiveness is between 180m-270m. It would also give a window for beginning player so they have a chance to learn the locking distance and how to kite mechs with ECM.

All of these are just ideas. Theres nothing wrong with using a multiplier and a level system. almost all MMO,s and action RPGs use it. It will add far more diversity to the game than the current system. This theory could also be applied to weight reduction of a mech when upgrading to endo steel. Like you don't get the full effectiveness of the upgrade or skill until you have invested the time and exp in playing the game. Right now the game certainly seems to have a capping point. I am getting bored of doing the same thing over and over for a mech. I would like a nice long road with infinite levels of diversity, where my time invested in one area will actually help to make me better than those in other areas.

This will also create so many different kinds of builds. People will initially go for one build and that will be their strength, but their build may not hold up to the build of another mech. You could even use this idea for weapon velocities, heat levels and such, where training the weapon skills increases the effectiveness of their use. Start at a low muzzle velocity and each level increases it until its maxed at the level the devs intended it to be.

I dont know what do you guys out there think? Good idea or bad idea?


Let me hear your thoughts on why you think its bad, if you disagree.

Edited by JTAlweezy, 21 December 2012 - 01:15 PM.

[JTAlweezy]

Another note,

Something like this could provide endless ideas and multiple variables for how things in the game works.

For instance, engine skills!

You could have an engine efficency skill that increases the output of your engine, by say 2% each level maxing out at 10% at level 5. At level 5 your engine creates 10% more power so say a jenner with a 300 engine, would have to master both heat conatinment and cooldown to allow them to unlock engine efficency so it could be trained; which when all at max, makes their mech go the max 149.7 kph.

This would provide a background for new players to build towards and also would keep encouraging experienced players to have to work to get that max mech skill. which would also make it more fair for newer players.

Idk, just some cool ideas I thought of.

Edited by JTAlweezy, 20 December 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[Kaijin]

I had a thought the other day regarding the skill system. I was fiddiling around in the third party MWO MechBay program and came up with several lovely builds that had just one problem. Perfection could only be achieved with 1 extra ton. So then I got to thinking being able to have a ton or two worth of wiggle room on customizing specific mech variants could be a cool skill.

Edited by Kaijin, 20 December 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[JTAlweezy]

Kaijin, on 20 December 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

I had a thought the other day regarding the skill system. I was fiddiling around in the third party MWO MechBay program and came up with several lovely builds that had just one problem. Perfection could only be achieved with 1 extra ton. So then I got to thinking being able to have a ton or two worth of wiggle room on customizing specific mech variants could be a cool skill.

Or maybe an advanced skill that you would have to unlock, Like Idk something stupid for all intensive purposes;

You would have to unlock a few basic and elite skills for an advanced skill like, space clearing, Mastering this skill allows the mech to fit 1 extra slot on any part of his mech and! his choosing.

So You could fit an Ac/20 on an arm that otherwise would only fit a guass. Or a skill like, weight saving, when mastered could allow a player to fit 1 extra or 2 extra tons on his mech. Remeber in the mechwarrior universe there was always a lot of customization be individual pilots in the books/game whatever. So a med laser may still be a med but make less or more heat and damage that is equivalent to said level.

[socom45]

your thoughts are good and i agree with they would update the skill system and improve the overall task of lvling a mech in general you have a good idea and its worth my bump a gold star for you sir

[Kaijin]

JTAlweezy, on 20 December 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Or maybe an advanced skill that you would have to unlock, Like Idk something stupid for all intensive purposes;

You would have to unlock a few basic and elite skills for an advanced skill like, space clearing, Mastering this skill allows the mech to fit 1 extra slot on any part of his mech and! his choosing.

Indeed. I have given a lot of thought to a skill system far more complex than we've got currently. PGI has stated though that the current system is just a placeholder, but there's no harm in giving them ideas.

My thinking has been for there to be a skill tree with enough depth that nobody could master all of them. They'd have to specialize If they wanted to gain the ultimate skill in any branch, and maybe only be able to max 1 or 2 branches out of 6 or 7. Or they could choose the 'jack-of-all' route, and be around average in all branches. And this would be per variant, so a pilot's skill sets could be different for different chassis. But in that vein, perhaps any specialization beyond a certain point in a discipline on one variant of a mech could 'discount' gaining that same specialization for other variants of that mech, and even more intensive specialization in a branch could discount specialization in that same branch on completely different mechs.

Edited by Kaijin, 20 December 2012 - 11:13 PM.

[JTAlweezy]

Kaijin, on 20 December 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

Indeed. I have given a lot of thought to a skill system far more complex than we've got currently. PGI has stated though that the current system is just a placeholder, but there's no harm in giving them ideas.

My thinking has been for there to be a skill tree with enough depth that nobody could master all of them. They'd have to specialize If they wanted to gain the ultimate skill in any branch, and maybe only be able to max 1 or 2 branches out of 6 or 7. Or they could choose the 'jack-of-all' route, and be around average in all branches. And this would be per variant, so a pilot's skill sets could be different for different chassis. But in that vein, perhaps any specialization beyond a certain point in a discipline on one variant of a mech could 'discount' gaining that same specialization for other variants of that mech, and even more intensive specialization in a branch could discount specialization in that same branch on completely different mechs.

Yeah that could deffinetly work. My idea is to still allow for players to branch off and start specializing in another area, all the while allowing them to go back to thier original path. It creates a multi-faceted skill system.
Just for reference, not intended as an insult to anyones intelligence : (A faceted classification system allows the assignment of an object to multiple characteristics (attributes), enabling the classification to be ordered in multiple ways, rather than in a single, predetermined, taxonomic order.)

[JTAlweezy]

Thinking into this pretty heavily also gave me the idea of allow players to view currently trained skills on their profile. Also it would be nice to add an option for players to advertise this on their forum profile for thier own bragging rights. I know that many people like the bragging rights for their accomplishments and they resevere that right to boast about it at any time.

[Zerbob]

While at it's core there are some great idea here, some just don't seem feasible/should not be included.

Engine skill: Should not make the 'Mech very much faster. Speed is a very powerful thing and one of the last to be tweaked. Max speed boost could be maybe 5%, but instead I'd say a more interesting thing would be to have that decrease the running heat of the 'Mech (you know that 2-9% base heat level you have when running around).

Another point: There should be nothing, and I mean nothing, that changes tonnage/crit slots. I cannot stress enough how much this should NOT be a thing. There are reasons why certain 'Mechs cannot fit an AC/20 or why 'Mechs are the tonnage they are. These things could be drastic in terms of balancing. Restrictions in tonnage and critical slots are two of the most important core aspects to outfitting a 'Mech and I believe are fine where they are.

[JTAlweezy]

Zerbob, on 20 December 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

While at it's core there are some great idea here, some just don't seem feasible/should not be included.

Engine skill: Should not make the 'Mech very much faster. Speed is a very powerful thing and one of the last to be tweaked. Max speed boost could be maybe 5%, but instead I'd say a more interesting thing would be to have that decrease the running heat of the 'Mech (you know that 2-9% base heat level you have when running around).

Another point: There should be nothing, and I mean nothing, that changes tonnage/crit slots. I cannot stress enough how much this should NOT be a thing. There are reasons why certain 'Mechs cannot fit an AC/20 or why 'Mechs are the tonnage they are. These things could be drastic in terms of balancing. Restrictions in tonnage and critical slots are two of the most important core aspects to outfitting a 'Mech and I believe are fine where they are.

Yeah the crit/tonnage thing may have been overthinking the possibilities and I can certainly understand why some players would dislike that. I was more or less trying to make a connection to how characters in the battletech lore would take it upon themselves to make serious changes to the mechs. Wouldn't this be a fair option to provide players with? Of course doing so would have to come with some kind of limiting factor.

As a Joke:
Mech Engineer/Mechanic to Mech Pilot: "Sooo! You want to carry a big gun eh? I'll have you know that a lot of systems and actuators will have to be stripped to make that work right? Put an AC/20 on the arm of a Cataphract and the horizontal actuators will have to be removed. It will cause a huge bother if you can only point her arm up and down. You know, I heard of a Mechwarrior whos Engineers were able to put an Ac/20 on a Centurion Chassis. Maybe you could find one on the open market. I know their rare and hard to find but that may satisfy your hunger for your cannon envy."

Edited by JTAlweezy, 20 December 2012 - 11:38 PM.

[Kaijin]

JTAlweezy, on 20 December 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

Thinking into this pretty heavily also gave me the idea of allow players to view currently trained skills on their profile. Also it would be nice to add an option for players to advertise this on their forum profile for thier own bragging rights. I know that many people like the bragging rights for their accomplishments and they resevere that right to boast about it at any time.

Shades of Eve Online, but a good idea. One could chose to display their skill certificates or not.

[JTAlweezy]

Kaijin, on 20 December 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Shades of Eve Online, but a good idea. One could chose to display their skill certificates or not.

Yeah it is isnt it haha. But its just simply outputting stats that you have in game. I mean a lot of game developers want that Social Networking nitch in the market. Make something like this and maybe players can post it to their facebooks, like a facebook app. This way they can actively track their improvements overall.

[Aym]

Similar stepped/granular systems have been proposed for almost 6 months now, I don't think we'll see any revamping of the XP system until after the clans, they don't have the development resources.

[JTAlweezy]

Aym, on 20 December 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Similar stepped/granular systems have been proposed for almost 6 months now, I don't think we'll see any revamping of the XP system until after the clans, they don't have the development resources.

Hmm I was certain of that. I guess the only way to really see a change is to have the community put forth some serious effort on pushing an idea or at least helping in refining it. I will keep a close eye on this thread. Hopefully some brilliant minds will come across this and share their thoughts.

[JTAlweezy]

no more comments out there on this?

[StalaggtIKE]

I would have preferred more specialization per chassis, by forcing us to chose between skills. The idea is to make each pilot unique. I suggest the following:

• You use your earned XP to unlock 3 skills under Basic Efficiencies; the rest of the Basic skills become unavailable.
  
• You then move to the Elite Efficiencies set to choose 3 more, in which the rest are unavailable.
  
• Finally you move to the Master Efficiency, to earn a module.
  
• After doing this you now have the ability to unlock the rest.

[JTAlweezy]

StalaggtIKE, on 21 December 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

I would have preferred more specialization per chassis, by forcing us to chose between skills. The idea is to make each pilot unique. I suggest the following:

• You use your earned XP to unlock 3 skills under Basic Efficiencies; the rest of the Basic skills become unavailable.
  
• You then move to the Elite Efficiencies set to choose 3 more, in which the rest are unavailable.
  
• Finally you move to the Master Efficiency, to earn a module.
  
• After doing this you now have the ability to unlock the rest.

I like this, it would certainly limit the skill system though, I thought that my idea would provide a similar function but still allow pilots to master those other skills. Ultimatley your survivability should weigh more heavily on your piloting abilities not your skills. Doing something of this nature would be interesting to see but dont you think it would remove the pilots skills at piloting? Give everyone the chance to improve their skills and it wont create an imbalance, but make it so it takes far longer to get those skills mastered.

[Laserkid]

Well, I dunno. On the one hand I have 50k+ Mech XP sitting on my favored variants of my mechs on the other the delicate balance that MWO is achieving of skill vs. time of play.

[JTAlweezy]

Laserkid, on 21 December 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

Well, I dunno. On the one hand I have 50k+ Mech XP sitting on my favored variants of my mechs on the other the delicate balance that MWO is achieving of skill vs. time of play.

Well I am providing more end game, and the opportunity for you to benefit from your hard work on more than one varient. I have my favs too, but I don't want to really play them cause they are mastered. I am not benefiting end game wise by constantly using the same class of mech. I do know that something like this would kind of remove the exp to GXP method to gain PGI more money through mv purchases. But Honestly how much of us who already spent 90 - 120 on MC and mechs is ready to do that again in the given time frame of say a year?

I would have to guess not many. what I am saying is the same could be achieved given the same amount of playing time, but now when you are bored with that mech, you can pilot another but benefit from all the hard work you put in on one class across many.

I am really trolling for some people to come here and give their ideas on this. I prefer all ends of the spectrum as far as opposition or approval is concerned.

Thanks everyone.

[StalaggtIKE]

JTAlweezy, on 21 December 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

I like this, it would certainly limit the skill system though, I thought that my idea would provide a similar function but still allow pilots to master those other skills.

After unlocking a module you will have the ability to unlock the rest of the skills. The difference is that you can choose 3 skills for a single chassis to move from basic skill set to the elite skill set. This allows for more unique yet faster skill customizations.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 21 December 2012 - 07:26 AM.