119 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

I've been pelted by plenty of 4x AC/5 or multiple AC/2 "support" mechs since the patch that reduced the impulse on them.
When in my PPC sniping Cataphract and Stalker.

It made me peek and shoot more, but mainly it just made sure I killed them first.

In close-range, the multiple AC/2 is a nasty ****** though, finds and exploits armor holes while doing quite massive DPS.

[Mahws]

QuantumButler, on 24 December 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Or, a few months down the road, an Orion.

True, the current 'let's ignore tonnage' matchmaker is borked, but I still like my chances in a dragon against any other heavy currently in the game. A splatapult is only a threat when it's in range or pointed at you, if you're doing your job right in a dragon that's something that should never happen. A Cataphract may have you on firepower, but at long range he's more exposed and a bigger target. The Dragon isn't a one on one mech, the reason it's seen as weak is that people don't get teamplay. It's advantage is having the speed to bring firepower to where it's currently needed and the maneuvarbility to put that firepower where it's going to do the most damage. Being able to turn and run from a losing fight ain't half bad either. A Dragon gets to a fight in time to save the Atlas, a Cataphract in time to avenge it.

Ten tonnes lost is certainly a harsh handicap, but the speed is an advantage that shouldn't be underestimated. I may cringe whenever I see an ally in a PUG sitting in a trial Dragon, because that usually means one more heavy mech for the enemy and a soon to be smoking wreck for us, but if you know how to play it it's easily equal value to your team as any other heavy.

[QuantumButler]

Mahws, on 24 December 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

True, the current 'let's ignore tonnage' matchmaker is borked, but I still like my chances in a dragon against any other heavy currently in the game. A splatapult is only a threat when it's in range or pointed at you, if you're doing your job right in a dragon that's something that should never happen. A Cataphract may have you on firepower, but at long range he's more exposed and a bigger target. The Dragon isn't a one on one mech, the reason it's seen as weak is that people don't get teamplay. It's advantage is having the speed to bring firepower to where it's currently needed and the maneuvarbility to put that firepower where it's going to do the most damage. Being able to turn and run from a losing fight ain't half bad either. A Dragon gets to a fight in time to save the Atlas, a Cataphract in time to avenge it.

Ten tonnes lost is certainly a harsh handicap, but the speed is an advantage that shouldn't be underestimated. I may cringe whenever I see an ally in a PUG sitting in a trial Dragon, because that usually means one more heavy mech for the enemy and a soon to be smoking wreck for us, but if you know how to play it it's easily equal value to your team as any other heavy.

You do realize most cataphracts can go at 75ish kph right?

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

1) Any non-ECM variant in a Mech lineup that can slot a variant. This is because the ECM is so stupidly OP.
2) The Awesome. It was already just an inferior Atlas, now there's a much better Stalker out as well.

[Willie Sauerland]

QuantumButler, on 24 December 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Why take AC2s when you could take UAC5s and provide supression fire AND insane DPS at the same time?

AC2s don't jam. AC5 isn't insane damage either even if it is being fired twice. Also, the AC2 with its cool down makes for a steady stream on chain fire while the UAC5 can stop firing either due to a jam or its cycle time. These are only a couple of reasons.

Again, it isn't built for its DPS, it is built for a specific purpose. If we had VTOLs and other aircraft, it would have a further role. I usually do not play a lone wolf.

Like I said, I haven't played it since the last patch so it could have significantly changed....

Edited by Willie Sauerland, 24 December 2012 - 05:39 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Bluten, on 24 December 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

1) Any non-ECM variant in a Mech lineup that can slot a variant. This is because the ECM is so stupidly OP.
2) The Awesome. It was already just an inferior Atlas, now there's a much better Stalker out as well.

The Atlas RS does 4 LL head-capping quite well due to having 4 arm-mounted energy points. The CDA-2A does 6 ML pretty well. The RVN-3L is just tragic because it was already the best RVN chassis, and the ECM is just the cherry on top.

[superteds]

Mahws, on 24 December 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

True, the current 'let's ignore tonnage' matchmaker is borked, but I still like my chances in a dragon against any other heavy currently in the game. A splatapult is only a threat when it's in range or pointed at you

please tell me how you keep a 80kph mech, with JJ's and with the best torso twist in the game not looking at you.

[TheUnderking]

QuantumButler, on 24 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

You do realize most cataphracts can go at 75ish kph right?

My Dragon does 102kph with speed tweak.Usually >500 damage a game. It's a beast once you get used to the screwy arm ballistics.

[Willie Sauerland]

Bluten, on 24 December 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

2) The Awesome. It was already just an inferior Atlas, now there's a much better Stalker out as well.

Actually, it wasn't just an inferior Atlas. The Atlas is a front-line brawling mech while the Awesome was a rear-echelon support mech. Again, using the mech for its role will save a pilot a lot of grief.

Now, the Stalker also has issues - I have surprised many a light pilot who was standing beside me because I could hit them with my arm PPC. In the Stalker, you will have to try and turn on them and I'm sure we all know how that will end. However, if you have a mech in front of you, there is no better mech to be in right now than the Stalker with its obscene hardpoint counts.

[Galland]

I have had lots of success with all regular variants of the Centurion. This morning I finished a game with 5 kills in a CN9-D. One of those was coring an Atlas from behind. Every 'Mech has its strengths and weaknesses, and the Centurion is just as good as a Hunchback, in my opinion. My CN9-A is designed as a scout hunter with 3 Streak SRM-2s, my CN9-AL has a 50+ alpha thanks to dual SRM-6 racks and an ER PPC, and my CN9-D is a more conservative Centurion build with an AC/10 and 2 Streak launchers.

I've also been piloting Dragons, too. They're good candidates for XL Engines and you can become a real dangerous opponent if you mount a Gauss Rifle, ER Large Laser, and dual SRM-4s. Quite a dangerous combination if I'm able to get behind an assault.

The lesson is not to underestimate any medium or heavy 'Mech that has both speed and firepower.

[Mycrus]

blame the bowman not the bow...

[Mavairo]

TheUnderking, on 24 December 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

My Dragon does 102kph with speed tweak.Usually >500 damage a game. It's a beast once you get used to the screwy arm ballistics.

I'm so used to the screwy ballistics that I can't even properly fly the Flame, or a Vomit Kitty for that matter.
Sad but true.

[Willie Sauerland]

Mavairo, on 24 December 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

I'm so used to the screwy ballistics that I can't even properly fly the Flame, or a Vomit Kitty for that matter.
Sad but true.

I know. I'm getting to the point that I am hoping they don't fix the netcode because I would have to relearn the game. I'm so used to leading by a mech length or three for my ballistics to hit that I won't be able to hit a single thing when it is working properly...

[Xyroc]

Anyone that says there is a bad mech just hasent found out how to use it effectively. See plenty of people talkin bad about the Awesome but I've done very well in the variants I have.

[Kadassa]

Yea there isen't a "bad" mech persay....they all have there purpose on the battlefield some more specialized than others. Question is what Mechs are you Best in? I myself am a Cent pilot! Just broke into the advanced colmn and am using my favorite chassis while also starting on the Hunchback set....I can land some blows with the Hunchie...but I actually can kill with the Cent. Fact just 10 minutes ago I got a personal best for me...with 3 kills in one match on my CN9-AL fun times!

[King Arthur IV]

only as bad as the pilot.

[Kai Lae]

This is a thread that never seems to go away. However, I'll point out that someone said that any person who routinely pilots a "suboptimal" mech would be better off in a "better" mech. That's false. I pretty much only use centurions. To say that I could suddenly pick up a hunchback, and use that better is just not true. Each mech has a specific fighting style, and if you can't figure out what it is you're going to die frequently.

Some of the issues noted here aren't really even mech issues. For instance, the awesome is frequently a PPC platform. The fact that DHS aren't DHS, that heat is way higher here than in TT due to faster ROF while heat dissipation isn't, and the fact that PPC's frequently bleed damage into other hitboxes (bug) mean that not surprisingly the awesome doesn't perform that great. Centurions have to deal with LBX issues (mostly no solid shot which gimps weapon) and of course, the wacky aiming issues due to convergence (PPC's on awesome also have this problem). That and multiple types of weapon systems mean IMO it does take more skill to use one of these than some boated mech (dragon is probably the same, never used one though).

Therefore, good question - is the mech bad, or does it have a longer learning curve that discourages pilots from taking them up? Is the mech bad, or are the common weapons mounted on it bad? It's not as simple question as many make it out. Not that anyone will stop just saying that "mechs X and Y are horribul" or something equally as foolish.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Kai Lae, on 24 December 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

Some of the issues noted here aren't really even mech issues. For instance, the awesome is frequently a PPC platform. The fact that DHS aren't DHS, that heat is way higher here than in TT due to faster ROF while heat dissipation isn't, and the fact that PPC's frequently bleed damage into other hitboxes (bug) mean that not surprisingly the awesome doesn't perform that great.

Even if PPCs were fixed, the Stalker would still be the better platform for the simple fact it doesn't suffer from being easy to kill and I believe gets a couple more DHS than the AWS can fit.

The Cent also suffers from too much arm weaponry, only a problem because the arm is so large and easy to rip off. Probably the best design I've seen used doesn't even mount arm weaponry (3 SRM6, 2 ML).

There is such a thing as sub-optimal mechs, believing that each mech is a unique puzzle piece that fits into the meta perfectly is too naive/idealistic (there is a lot of shadowing between designs, a lot). Part of the problem is that there are styles of play that don't work well in competitive play (harassers mainly) and that some of these designs give themselves well to this style, so they are relegated to play in or against PUGs where they tend to excel. Another part of the problem is there seems to be a lack of a system for adding mechs to actually ensure there is some balance between chassis' (quirks system fixes a small part of this), not to mention models don't seem to be comparatively sized, or at least proportioned correctly (hopefully they do a sweep on all HBBs again as well as mech sizes).

Edited by majora incarnate, 24 December 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[Mahws]

QuantumButler, on 24 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

You do realize most cataphracts can go at 75ish kph right?

75kph =/= 90-110kph. They aren't slugs but it's a big speed difference.

superteds, on 24 December 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

please tell me how you keep a 80kph mech, with JJ's and with the best torso twist in the game not looking at you.

Easily, by running 25kph faster than them.

Seriously though, the splatapult is crazy dangerous and a good build, but it's also a one trick pony, as long as you see it coming you should be able to put it down before it can close. And if worse comes to worse and you get stuck in a brawl with it frankly a lot of A1 users simply don't have the skills to hit anything faster than an Atlas, so as long as you keep moving a lot of those missiles are going to miss. If the A1 user actually knows what you're doing then yeah, you're completely hosed, but that's what you get for trying to outbrawl a completely brawl focused build.

Which is somewhat of a moot point, because you usually get ignored as a Dragon, so you can feel free to alpha their arms off whilst they try to kill the Assault you're running with.

Edited by Mahws, 24 December 2012 - 11:47 PM.