20 replies to this topic

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

People complain that there are not enough maps/ concerned that PGI won't be able to produce enough maps to fill the need for a BT Universe scale of Community Warfare. Well here is one solution that even MW4 / MC 1&2 had. A custom user side map creator?

I'm not sure why they haven't talked about plans like this. Sure PGI would need to approve maps, but the dedicated /talented community that is BT/MW would be able to produce enough maps with every climate / environment imaginable at an alarming rate. Hell, if the community got their hands on a decent map maker, their map making team would be working 24/7 on just making sure the maps are bug free and up to par.

Any map that isn't up to par, PGI could just send back an email to the creators saying why it got rejected and the list of grievances. No doubt the creators would then go back and improve the map, fix the bugs, etc.

Players feel the need for larger maps? They'd create them. More brawler orientated maps? Larger, urban maps? Space maps? (like Lunar from MW4 or the water asteroid mission on MW2 Mercs) You bet your *** the community would make them.

Edited by mwhighlander, 11 January 2013 - 09:12 PM.

[Norris J Packard]

There already is one. It's called the CryEngine SDK.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Norris J Packard, on 11 January 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

There already is one. It's called the CryEngine SDK.

You mean this?

[Thirdstar]

Norris J Packard, on 11 January 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

There already is one. It's called the CryEngine SDK.

Does that have a button that slaps snow onto an existing map?

[CrashieJ]

I've touched on the before, once you sign the contract and recieve the SDK, anything you give to the community and PGI must be FOR FREE. no payment whatsoever.

I dont know if PGI can actually accept Community items since I've and my friends have repeatedly sent letters to Crytek and they've sent NIL, NADDA, NUTTIN, back to me or my friends about a commercial game accepting usermade items for no charge.

and since MWO is a free-to-pay game, then that falls in a really big grey area

Edited by gavilatius, 11 January 2013 - 09:31 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

gavilatius, on 11 January 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

I've touched on the before, once you sign the contract and recieve the SDK, anything you give to the community and PGI must be FOR FREE. no payment whatsoever.

I dont know if PGI can actually accept Community items since I've and my friends have repeatedly sent letters to Crytek and they've sent NIL, NADDA, NUTTIN, back to me or my friends about a commercial game accepting usermade items for no charge.

and since MWO is a free-to-pay game, then that falls in a really big grey area

Well, the only content I'm arguing the community would contribute are the maps, which by definition of the FTP market would ensure they too are free to the community. The creation of maps and even approval system is quite prevalent in other popular games such as SC2, and hell I'm pretty damn sure custom map creation is why thigns like DOTA, Counter Strike, and Team Fortress even exist!

Bottom line is, custom map creation tools for the community is an overwhelming powerful source of content, and would take a huge burden/pressure off PGI, especially if they are only looking for producing a single map a month.

[Billygoat]

I really, really, really hope that accepting community map submissions for consideration is something PGI are giving serious thought to. A small, talented group of hobby map makers for a game like this could produce 3 or 4 quality maps using existing art assets in the time it took PGI to turn the dimmer knob down on RIver City. Hell, a single guy with the proper tools and plenty of spare time could probably outpace PGI's map development at this point.

Whether it's this or another strategy, something needs to be done about the pace of content development in this area because right now it is so freaking slow that moss is starting to grow.

[Draxos Synge]

Thirdstar, on 11 January 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Does that have a button that slaps snow onto an existing map?

You would just have to add a new texture layer onto the exsiting layers. Cryengine isn't easy to use as a beginner. While it is a good engine to make massive terrains in, it takes some practice to optimize, debug, and setup a nice map. I've been using the SDK for about a year and I've gotten fairly comfortable with it. Of course there are eat 3d videos as well as other sources that provide tutorials for the engine.

Bad thing about community made maps are the sheer volume of bad maps PGI would receive. They would most likely spend more time screening maps made by community members than actually working on fixing things in the game now. I'm an old modder from back when Unreal Tournament, Star Wars Republic Commando, F.E.A.R., and other games had community mod sites and such. For every good map you would see up for download there would be a dozen bad ones. Last thing this game needs is a bunch of half *** maps that someone thought would be a good map for the game (orange box maps for TF2 and CS:S come to mind).

[Draxos Synge]

gavilatius, on 11 January 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

I've touched on the before, once you sign the contract and recieve the SDK, anything you give to the community and PGI must be FOR FREE. no payment whatsoever.

I dont know if PGI can actually accept Community items since I've and my friends have repeatedly sent letters to Crytek and they've sent NIL, NADDA, NUTTIN, back to me or my friends about a commercial game accepting usermade items for no charge.

and since MWO is a free-to-pay game, then that falls in a really big grey area

From my understanding of the EULA for the SDK all contnet made must be strictly free of charge period. That means you cannot charge a dime for anything involved with that content. If independent teams reach the point of being ready to launch a game and intend to charge for anything involved in it, they have to sign an agreemement with CryTek which is essentially them paying out royalties for the use of the engine. How that would effect PGI, as I'm sure they have a full license already, I'm not sure. I would assume that any content created by community members would not incur any fees from Crytek as PGI has already paid for the source engine and code.

[Protection]

I asked Paul about this about six month ago, when he was still regularly on the public teamspeak during closed beta.

He responding saying very likely not, because "the game will technically be an MMO," so community created levels were probably out of the question.

I really love the idea of community created maps and content - it's been wonderful for games like TF2, and I'd love to see user made maps in MW:O, but it doesn't seem likely at this time.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Protection, on 11 January 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

I asked Paul about this about six month ago, when he was still regularly on the public teamspeak during closed beta.

He responding saying very likely not, because "the game will technically be an MMO," so community created levels were probably out of the question.

I really love the idea of community created maps and content - it's been wonderful for games like TF2, and I'd love to see user made maps in MW:O, but it doesn't seem likely at this time.

A lot has changed in the past 6 months.

Well, maybe not. Those damn trees just refuse to die!

[D34K]

I don't know how PGI hope to represent the planets of the Inner Sphere in some kind of meta-game given how long it has taken to get to where we are now with just a handful of maps.

I don't put much stock in Paul's comment about this game being basically an MMO. MMO implies large open-world maps, PvE, and scripted events. What we have -- really -- is an FPS with some persistent RPG bits. The maps are tiny, more like regular levels. It's absolutely perfect for our community to contribute to.

It's invariably the case the community maps in games greatly exceed the quality of the official ones. This is because the map maker is doing it their free time, it's a labour of love, and they aren't constrained by budgets or project pressures.

I suspect a lot of people would rally to a simple poll on this. Whether or not PGI would listen is another story.

Edited by D34K, 12 January 2013 - 12:50 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Yep SDK is the map creator, making map terrain is fairly simple but long process.
Texturing and bringing the map to life is an even longer process, not to mention you'll have to create scenery.

Then debug the map and ensure playability.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

DV McKenna, on 12 January 2013 - 01:31 AM, said:

Yep SDK is the map creator, making map terrain is fairly simple but long process.
Texturing and bringing the map to life is an even longer process, not to mention you'll have to create scenery.

Then debug the map and ensure playability.

Very true, but that might only put off the lower quality maps that would flood in from a simpler map making system and leave only those actually dedicated enough to go through the process and create maps. Still, any source more than 1 map a month would be a sorely needed if PGI plans on having the Clans arrive for Community Warfare this year.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

mwhighlander, on 12 January 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

Very true, but that might only put off the lower quality maps that would flood in from a simpler map making system and leave only those actually dedicated enough to go through the process and create maps. Still, any source more than 1 map a month would be a sorely needed if PGI plans on having the Clans arrive for Community Warfare this year.

Oh i don't disagree, but there are some people under the illusion that it is easy and quick to make good quality maps for CryEngine.

[Noth]

Honestly, this probably wouldn't speed up map production at all since PGI would have to search through them and then run them through the ringer and change them as needed.

[Yiazmat]

Draxes Synge, on 11 January 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

From my understanding of the EULA for the SDK all contnet made must be strictly free of charge period. That means you cannot charge a dime for anything involved with that content. If independent teams reach the point of being ready to launch a game and intend to charge for anything involved in it, they have to sign an agreemement with CryTek which is essentially them paying out royalties for the use of the engine. ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this game, MWO, when you fire it up, has a big*** CRYENGINE 3 pop up first and foremost? I think this problem has already solved itself.

Edited by Yiazmat, 12 January 2013 - 05:04 AM.

[KKRonkka]

Why can't they hold map making contests like Tripwire interactive does with Red Orchestra 2? That community has produced stunning amount of good maps, inspired from other games and previous Red Orchestra. Any map designs usable from previous mech games (I haven't tried those so can't say)?

PGI could provide criteria for maps (min/max size and so on) and community/developers would vote for the best results. If not directly usable they could at least pick some ideas or material from maps and polish those which have highest potential. Winners would get in-game rewards and so on - "planetary engineer" titles and funky stuff like that _everyone_ desires and envies, heh.

Edited by KKRonkka, 12 January 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[Buck Cake]

While Community mapmaking would solve several outstanding issues we have about the game, I do not see it happening. First off, it opens up several different cans of worms as far as the legal side of map production is concerned. Secondly, PGI already has in-house mapmakers.

[Fooooo]

The most they could really use is the heightmaps (and or a base terrain + textures + trees if needed as a template) as nobody is really allowed access to the assets from MWO, and I don't think they would really accept custom assets made by the user, although tbh they might if they were just that damn good.

They could I guess release the use of a few standardized assets (that they would make) and then give them out to any potential map makers to use. Which would ease PGI's conversion to live assets etc as they would at least have a layout of what the maker had intended with regards to placement of buildings / trees etc and they would already somewhat "suit" MWO. (as they would be made by PGI for this exact use)

Of course PGI would have the end say and would move / adjust things as needed, but it could potentially speed things up from community ---> dev ----> in-game.

All that said, its a fairly high request and I doubt it will ever come to pass anytime soon...............but you never know what can happen if all goes well down the line..........