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The Spider's True Role Is Not Represented In Mwo


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#1 Suprentus

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:17 PM

So after playing around with the Spider for a bit, I've come to that conclusion. I don't know how it was in TT, but the impression I get from the Spider is it's meant for deep reconnaissance. I'm not talking about spotting, I'm talking about DEEP recon.

I imagine a scenario like this:

"The enemy base is somewhere out there, and we're sending in a lance of scouts under cover of night to get in there, locate the base (because information is ammunition), and sabotage its power grid. You're going deep behind enemy lines, so you'll need to take an ECM for stealth, a BAP for increased sensor range, and the terrain is incredibly rough and mountainous, so you'll want to take an incredibly jump-capable mech. The Spider seems to be your best choice."

Now I know it sort of helps with Conquest a bit, but no more than a more damage-capable scout.

So how can PGI fix this?

I'm glad you asked, because I have two ideas.

1) Have a game mode exactly like the scenario I described above. Have a scouting side, and a patrolling side. In a large spread out base of buildings, the objective is random, so the patrolling side can't just camp at it. Ex: destroy the power grid, sabatoge the landing pad, destroy the defense turret control centers, assassinate the base commander, locate the POWs, etc.

Of course a mode like that would require you know ahead of time what mission it is, and choose a mech accordingly. Also, as long as one mech has an ECM, the others can stay in its umbrella. Also, a mode like that begs for implementation of passive radar.

2) Have a large map where the spawn points are random. It will be up to the scouts to find out where the enemy is coming from, and in rough, mountainous terrain, the Spider will excel.



Those are just two ideas. Maybe they can't be realized until Community Warfare is put in place, idk. However, they would not only add to the game's variety, but you can tone down scouts' OP-ness and still give them a viable role on the field.

#2 verybad

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:19 PM

The Spiders role in TT is for the GM to have redshirts to throw at you.

#3 Vassago Rain

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:23 PM

View Postverybad, on 15 January 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

The Spiders role in TT is for the GM to have redshirts to throw at you.


This. It's useless there, and it's useless here.

#4 Shumabot

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:24 PM

This is precisely why the TT game is an awful basis for a live multiplayer videogame. It doesn't translate.

#5 Suprentus

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:26 PM

View Postverybad, on 15 January 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

The Spiders role in TT is for the GM to have redshirts to throw at you.


That's nice

#6 Tie Ma

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:27 PM

I played a game where there was 6 Spiders on the other team. I **** you not

it was hilarious sight to see. they circled our 2 heavier mechs and jump jetted around. Something out of a movie


almost like a swarm of elementals

Edited by Tie Ma, 15 January 2013 - 07:27 PM.


#7 MonkeyCheese

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

3) buff the 4 machine gun variant.

#8 Spinning Burr

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

Maybe we can come up with some new roles for the Spider within the confines of the current maps and objectives that differ from the intended role of the TT mech it is modeled after. Perhaps we can do some imaginative legwork too. I also think the OP's specific suggestions for new maps and missions are great regardless of the Spider's existence and role.

#9 Eddrick

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:30 PM

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Spider This says thier purpose is for, "Spiders are generally used as fast strike forces to hit an enemy's rear with lightning speed". Basicaly, "Hit and Run tactics". I'm not sure how accurate the desription is. But, that is how they should be used in combat.

Edited by Eddrick, 15 January 2013 - 07:32 PM.


#10 Yoseful Mallad

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

the Spider in TT was a good fast hit and run mech. As long as you kept it moving/running/jumping... the enemy had a hard time hitting it on the to hit table. The %s were very low. And the Spider had a longer life span in TT than it does in this game. The big problem the spider has is that (in this game) it just cant dish out the same kind of firepower as other mech.

#11 Vassago Rain

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

View PostSpinning Burr, on 15 January 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Maybe we can come up with some new roles for the Spider within the confines of the current maps and objectives that differ from the intended role of the TT mech it is modeled after. Perhaps we can do some imaginative legwork too. I also think the OP's specific suggestions for new maps and missions are great regardless of the Spider's existence and role.


Okay.
It has so many jets, it can move like something out of tribes, but it has almost no guns, weak armor, and requires a gigantic sum of money to setup to be useful. Two out of three versions are completely useless, fit only for grinding elite.

#12 General Taskeen

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:34 PM

Or just have: 4x4 km true conquest/terrain control maps like MW:LL, fun jumpjets, and fixed netcode to remove speed cap

#13 Yoseful Mallad

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:36 PM

View PostVassago Rain, on 15 January 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:


Okay.
It has so many jets, it can move like something out of tribes, but it has almost no guns, weak armor, and requires a gigantic sum of money to setup to be useful. Two out of three versions are completely useless, fit only for grinding elite.
actually 2 variants are very useful. The ECM variant just for that reason and the variant with 12 JJs can get into places or over just about anything that no other mech can. I was able to max my armor, add 12 JJs and 2 MPLs with an (XL engine) and boy is that thing hard to hit lol. Granted... if you get hit, you're fracked lol but thats the point... dont get hit and keep moving so you can pick at your prey.

#14 Suprentus

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostEddrick, on 15 January 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Spider This says thier purpose is for, "Spiders are generally used as fast strike forces to hit an enemy's rear with lightning speed". Basicaly, "Hit and Run tactics". I'm not sure how accurate the desription is. But, that is how they should be used in combat.


They should be used that way just because that's how they were used in TT? Guess we shouldn't try to think outside the box and try to glean how it translates to a real-time FPS.

Sorry, but I think I'm going to look beyond the sacred TT documents and try to come up with some actual use.

#15 Mackman

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:39 PM

This would be amazing...

#16 verybad

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

I want the Spider to be useful. It's got no role in this game that another light can't do better except for jumping. That's an extremely limited, and non rewarding (in terms of winning/kills/damaging/being effective in this game) role.

It's fun to drive it arround, but it's a tactical fail. It would actually be MORE fun to drive arround in a single player map with stuff like Portal 2, barriers and physics puzzels..However that's not in this game.

I refuse to support something that I WANT to be good, if it's NOT good by offering false positive statements about it just needing a better pilot, or making up stories about how agile it is. Sure it's agile. It's also the worst mech in the game. It's ECM variant takes that status away from the Commando.

ALL it can do better than other mechs is jump. That's it. Jumping in this game is pretty limited, and while the Spider can do it better, that's like saying a sensor range module will make your BAP better...

So what. It's the best at a relatively useless ability.

#17 Krazy Kat

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:44 PM

I almost won an assault game with a spider on river city. Cap each point, run, JJ out of the river ,repeat.

True, a jenner could have done the same thing. But if I put an XL engine in. . .

#18 verybad

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:46 PM

View PostGeneral Taskeen, on 15 January 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Or just have: 4x4 km true conquest/terrain control maps like MW:LL, fun jumpjets, and fixed netcode to remove speed cap

Doesn't help the Spider any more than it helps other lights.

Spider still gets the ***tty end of the stick.

#19 Vassago Rain

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:46 PM

View Postverybad, on 15 January 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

I want the Spider to be useful. It's got no role in this game that another light can't do better except for jumping. That's an extremely limited, and non rewarding (in terms of winning/kills/damaging/being effective in this game) role.

It's fun to drive it arround, but it's a tactical fail. It would actually be MORE fun to drive arround in a single player map with stuff like Portal 2, barriers and physics puzzels..However that's not in this game.

I refuse to support something that I WANT to be good, if it's NOT good by offering false positive statements about it just needing a better pilot, or making up stories about how agile it is. Sure it's agile. It's also the worst mech in the game. It's ECM variant takes that status away from the Commando.

ALL it can do better than other mechs is jump. That's it. Jumping in this game is pretty limited, and while the Spider can do it better, that's like saying a sensor range module will make your BAP better...

So what. It's the best at a relatively useless ability.


But muh precious spider that's totally great in the TT, especially if we ignore all the other mechs that do the exact same thing, only they have guns, and move faster, or both at the same time.

I bought a D. It's named BIRD FOOD. When the game starts working for me again, I'll bling it with expensive paint, like it's a swedish APC. All this, because it's just a joke.

The mech's completely useless right now.

#20 Eddrick

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:49 PM

View PostSuprentus, on 15 January 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:


They should be used that way just because that's how they were used in TT? Guess we shouldn't try to think outside the box and try to glean how it translates to a real-time FPS.

Sorry, but I think I'm going to look beyond the sacred TT documents and try to come up with some actual use.

Ok. Wrong choise of words. How they were intended. It doesn't mean they have to be used that way. It's just what they were made for.





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