46 replies to this topic

[sh4rpedge]

I've played a lot with Paran01ac and find him a good pilot in mechs, as well as Mango and Psikez. I find all their posts meaningful and and I concur with their posts. I've barely touched my Jenner after ECM was introduced.
Sure, I've piloted it sometimes, but getting ***** by Ravens with ECM and streaks takes the fun out of it.

[Fergrim]

Wow, I haven't yet read a thread like this here before. Quickly, let us bump it, the developers will be fascinated with the new and innovative looks at the issues with the current build!

I doubt they even know that ECM is a fire-starter amongst their player community, what it does, or how powerful it is! I doubt they ever planned to balance weapons or equipment again! Quickly, let us all switch to the OTHER mech simulator.

Woe is me, if only they would plan to move to a new phase, a phase where they are offering a finished product. Like, the phase that comes after beta...

Edited by Fergrim, 18 January 2013 - 07:03 AM.

[UnseenFury]

Taizan, on 18 January 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

Almost in the same position. Sure I can kill other mechs with an Awesome, its just a bit weakier in comparison with the other two assault chassis. A skilled pilot will always get the best out of any chassis.

Just as some players (me included btw.) like playing the Awesome instead of just bringing along another D-DC, some players will enjoy playing the Spider instead of bringing along the Raven-3L.

"Every Jack will find his Jill." (Hope the translation makes sense)

I don't want to offend you because you seem like a really nice guy but...

You are wrong. Every pilot with skill will tell you that dropping in non-ECM light will result in a quick and painful death, and even running for heavies for protection wont save you because these lag-shield ECM streak beasts would follow you in the center of the whole your team without any fear.

Stop defending game flaws because you are a moderator

[OGFAMINE]

I don't mind not being as powerful in my founders jenner as before ECM. But i greatly mind a broken game mechanic making the mech far less enjoyable to play. ECM + JJ nerf killed the Jenner.

(Many pilots - including myself - can still pull off 500+ damage rounds in our jenners. It's just not as much fun anymore imo.)

[Fergrim]

I don't want to offend you either, but what he did was state his opinion. He said what he liked to do, and claimed people like himself exist, in general.

Are you seriously going to say he's wrong, when his mere assertion validates his statement? Are you denying that he exists or denying that he likes playing his awesome? Because you'd have to be denying one or the other in order to use such big text to call him wrong.

Man, they have to start teaching informal logic in high school.

Edited by Fergrim, 18 January 2013 - 07:10 AM.

[Psikez]

Fergrim, on 18 January 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

Wow, I haven't yet read a thread like this here before. Quickly, let us bump it, the developers will be fascinated with the new and innovative looks at the issues with the current build!

I doubt they even know that ECM is a fire-starter amongst their player community, what it does, or how powerful it is! I doubt they ever planned to balance weapons or equipment again! Quickly, let us all switch to the OTHER mech simulator.

Woe is me, if only they would plan to move to a new phase, a phase where they are offering a finished product. Like, the phase that comes after beta...

Aff Star Colonel Obvious

Paran01ac, on 18 January 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

I don't want to offend you because you seem like a really nice guy but...

You are wrong. Every pilot with skill will tell you that dropping in non-ECM light will result in a quick and painful death, and even running for heavies for protection wont save you because these lag-shield ECM streak beasts would follow you in the center of the whole your team without any fear.

Stop defending game flaws because you are a moderator

Para hes just saying we all drop sub optimal builds and mechs sometimes just because its fun. I was running around ER PPC spider earlier

[Fergrim]

hehehe

I, Mr. Obvious, hereby accept my promotion to Star Colonel Obvious.

Sorry, these threads exhaust me. These kids haven't even realized that in battletech none of the damn mechs are balanced, and most are situational or bad.

And if a mech is bad all round or gets hard countered by something, it's a pretty damn average mech. Positioning and piloting skill are way more useful.

Play battletech. Trying to use piloting skill to make a bad mech work, and then inevitably but valiantly failing after having some effect is part of the game.

The very nature of battletech (the war with the clans) is based on the fact that ALL of the inner sphere mechs and tech are AWFUL compared to the clans.

I just feel like a lot of these kids don't get either the beta process or BT. Like the fact that even when net-code is fixed, your assault mechs will die so so quickly to light mechs and that is working as intended.

Whether you solo queue or group up, it's a team game and sometimes your role is minor. Mechs do not need to be balanced (any more than cars are "balanced" IRL), they simply need to be viable. There are plenty of flawed mech designs and it is part of the game.

Edited by Fergrim, 18 January 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[Psikez]

Fergrim, on 18 January 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

hehehe

I, Mr. Obvious, hereby accept my promotion to Star Colonel Obvious.

Sorry, these threads exhaust me. These kids haven't even realized that in battletech none of the damn mechs are balanced, and most are situational or bad.

And if a mech is bad all round or gets hard countered by something, it's a pretty damn average mech.

Play battletech. Trying to use piloting skill to make a bad mech work, and then inevitably but valiantly failing after having some effect is part of the game.

The very nature of battletech (the war with the clans) is based on the fact that ALL of the inner sphere mechs and tech are AWFUL compared to the clans.

I just feel like a lot of these kids don't get either the beta process or BT.

We know we're treading ground thats a 10 foot deep trench now but like everyone else we'd like our voice heard too. We know things will change with patches, we know balance will be ironed out and we understand classes will have sub-optimal or "just for fun" variants.

There will always be go to basics and FoTM builds in any game but that doesn't preclude us from trying to have our say too.

[StalaggtIKE]

Evinthal, on 17 January 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

I've been holding off a long time on saying it and even trying to defend it in a few posts, but the simple fact of the mater is that it seriously does too much.

Glad you finally came to your senses.



@Fergrim: It's funny you would bring up BT. The current implementation of ECM is way over board. Making bad mech chassis even worst. So, yes choosing a non-ECM light is detrimental to your team.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 18 January 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Fergrim, on 18 January 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

hehehe

I, Mr. Obvious, hereby accept my promotion to Star Colonel Obvious.

Sorry, these threads exhaust me. These kids haven't even realized that in battletech none of the damn mechs are balanced, and most are situational or bad.

And if a mech is bad all round or gets hard countered by something, it's a pretty damn average mech. Positioning and piloting skill are way more useful.

Play battletech. Trying to use piloting skill to make a bad mech work, and then inevitably but valiantly failing after having some effect is part of the game.

The very nature of battletech (the war with the clans) is based on the fact that ALL of the inner sphere mechs and tech are AWFUL compared to the clans.

I just feel like a lot of these kids don't get either the beta process or BT. Like the fact that even when net-code is fixed, your assault mechs will die so so quickly to light mechs and that is working as intended.

Whether you solo queue or group up, it's a team game and sometimes your role is minor. Mechs do not need to be balanced (any more than cars are "balanced" IRL), they simply need to be viable. There are plenty of flawed mech designs and it is part of the game.

While that may work for tabletop, it is terrible for an online game.

The claim of "imbalance in inherit in battletech" is true. But were talking about mechwarrior, a game inspired from battletech. This is their chance to remove as many imbalances as they can, making the game better.

It will never have perfect balance, because that is impossible, but it could be a lot more balanced than the TT, while still having everything awesome that makes resemble it battletech.

Edited by Roughneck45, 18 January 2013 - 07:58 AM.

[Zerex]

i posted this on another forum but will post it here too, the fastest way to fix ECM's is to have the Beagle active probe changed to something useful, alter it so it is a counter to the ECM but for only the mech carrying it, and make it centre torso mount only so its a trade item too, the BAP is not used at all at the minute as its a pointless item, so change it like this

:BAP is centre torso mounted
:BAP only works for the mech its fitted on
:BAP counters ONLY the targeted mech
:BAP only counters the ECM at 200 meters and under

now lets look at the changes to the game because of this, the BAP is no longer a worthless item, ECM scouts can now carry ECM for scouting and a BAP to counter another scouts ECM without being a LRM target, everyone can now counter ECM at close range to defend them selves if they choice by carry a BAP jenners and other lights get brought back into the game on a payable level by carrying BA and Ssrm's, the draw back to these none ECM lights is they can be LRM'd and spotted at long range, but can still counter any other lights. people will soon lose the will to use a 3L when it bumps into a Jenner-D in a 1v1 and finds its self out gunned.

and for anyone who says "thats not what a BAP does though, it doesn't matter its in the name that its an active probe and be shaped in which ever way PGI sees fit (just like the ECM has been)

Edited by Zerex, 18 January 2013 - 08:20 AM.

[Garth Erlam]

First, your English is better than mine, so drop the false modesty
Secondly, design took that giant list, remember the email I sent them? They took that, and in it, were dozens of ways to shift balance to make each variant of a chassis roughly equal.

I can't get into details other than to say: Changes to chassis and variants will come in pieces, over time, but there will be changes made to quite literally every variant of every chassis in the game - these will take time though.

Thank you for your well written post, though

[Kraven Kor]

Solution:

Add a targeting computer, per CBT rules, and make it so that Targeting Computer makes your lasers and ballistics work like streaks and auto hit if you have a lock

[Stormwolf]

Paran01ac, on 18 January 2013 - 03:32 AM, said:

• Right now I have dual ac/20, 2srm6s&4ssrms2s cats in my mech bays. 6 streaks cat was LAMER's thing but I never really struggled with it, I was bombarding it outside of 270m with medium lasers.
  
• 9 las hunchback was ok for me because everyone would focus fire on its RT and it would die pretty quickly (his speed was ridiculous before though).
  
• LRM never bothered me, I was just taking cover behind things and I think ahead of how to move around the map so there is always cover for me.
  
• Gauss cat is only a sniper, takes some skill to shoot with it inside 50 meters because of the weapon convergences.

= There was always a diversity for a SKILLED player. Until ECM.

You pretty much destroy your own argument with the list of min maxed designs you just gave. There was really no diversity since many people will always gravitate towards the most min maxed build, that dual AC/20 build of yours is a prime example of this.

Another great example of this was when you could constantly fire your Ultra AC5's, everybody and their brother mounted those things on their K2's when they figured out the high DPS it had. It was quite a shock to many people when jamming was introduced, now nobody has a dual Ultra AC5 K2.

The current users who use ECM lights are doing exactly the same thing by exploiting the advantages these mechs bring with the added bonus of the lagshield. What I just can't wrap my head around is the fact that people get outraged over the overpowerd ECM while past exploits were embraced.

I've been advocating for a stock only option since MWO started, I'm willing to bet that we'd see far more different mech variants there then what you would see in a normal match. I challenge anybody to compete in a stock only match if they truely want to showcase their skills.

[UnseenFury]

Stormwolf, on 18 January 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

You pretty much destroy your own argument with the list of min maxed designs you just gave. There was really no diversity since many people will always gravitate towards the most min maxed build, that dual AC/20 build of yours is a prime example of this.

Another great example of this was when you could constantly fire your Ultra AC5's, everybody and their brother mounted those things on their K2's when they figured out the high DPS it had. It was quite a shock to many people when jamming was introduced, now nobody has a dual Ultra AC5 K2.

The current users who use ECM lights are doing exactly the same thing by exploiting the advantages these mechs bring with the added bonus of the lagshield. What I just can't wrap my head around is the fact that people get outraged over the overpowerd ECM while past exploits were embraced.

I've been advocating for a stock only option since MWO started, I'm willing to bet that we'd see far more different mech variants there then what you would see in a normal match. I challenge anybody to compete in a stock only match if they truely want to showcase their skills.

You missing the point, in any other weight class you can choose any mech and do well with it and help your team.

With non-ECM light you only will be a drag down for your team.

I have ac/20 k2 because you have to have it if you play competitive.

[3rdworld]

Paran01ac, on 18 January 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

I have ac/20 k2 because you have to have it if you play competitive.

I disagree with that statement.

We have not used one in RHoD yet.

[Kylere]

Gods forbid that anyone undertake challenge

[Zerex]

3rdworld, on 18 January 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

I disagree with that statement.

We have not used one in RHoD yet.

ok, proof that no mech is a must in competitive! unless its a light which then u HAVE to take 2 x Raven 3L's

[3rdworld]

Zerex, on 18 January 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

ok, proof that no mech is a must in competitive! unless its a light which then u HAVE to take 2 x Raven 3L's

Well, ravens are a must.

and depending on the drop deck 3Ms are a must. Its usually best to use a D-DC for an assault unless its a heavy drop and you can have some variation.

Heavies are easily the most balanced of the classes, with the ability to swap many different mechs depending on play style.

[Arckon]

I have to agree, the only reason to play a non ECM variant now is to be able to skill up your ECM variant. Every time I drop with a non ECM variant I feel like I should apologize to the group.