16 replies to this topic

[UnseenFury]

What deals more damage, what is better? Regular LRMs under tag or LRMs + Artemis IV?

I still will be using TAG in both cases to shoot at ECM targets but the question is, DO I NEED to equip Artemis IV with my rockets or I shouldn't do it because the bonuses my rockets would take from TAG are better than just Artemis rockets?

The thing is that if rockets are with Artemis they don't get bonuses from TAG.

Thanks.

[AnnoyingCat]

Artemis IV gives your missiles better grouping and better homing.
TAG gives you the option to lock on to a ECM user and it guides the missiles to the locked target. Therefore, giving you a better chance to hit the target. TAGing also gives you the Narc/ TAG assists bonus if friendly missiles also hit the TAged target.

Edited by AnnoyingCat, 24 January 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[Krazy Kat]

I have heard (but not tested) that if you fire large amounts of LRM's at a small target that some will miss and hit around the mech. Artemis makes the whole volley travel in a tighter bunch, making more of them hit.

If I am wrong, then some LRM boater please correct me.

[Hex Pallett]

TAG speeds up the locking and also counters ECM beyond the 180m bubble.

Artemis will group up flying missiles real tight when the target is in sight so the damage would be more concentrated.

Totally separated mechanisms. I use them both.

[Corison]

You however need to use both IMO.
1) Tag will help allies, and give you a lock on through ECM.
2) Artemis will tighten up your missile spread allowing you to do more damage.

[StalaggtIKE]

I believe that TAG and Artemis accuracy bonus do not stack. Here's what I know for a fact:

• ECM counters both Artemis and TAG accuracy bonus.
  
• you need los for the Artemis bonus.
  
• the only way to lock-on through ECM is with TAG; must remain outside enemy's ECM for it to be able to relay the sensor and targeting information to allies

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 24 January 2013 - 06:07 PM.

[Seth]

Artemis, TAG, and Narc will all increase the tracking strength of LRMs by 50%. They don't stack the tracking bonus, so you can't combine them all to have LRMs that track 2.5x better than standard LRMs.

Artemis
+ Decreases your lock on time by 50%
+ Tightens LRM and SRM grouping by 20%
- Requires you to have Line of Sight to your target
- Is nullified by ECM
- Adds one ton and uses up an extra critical space for each launcher

TAG
+ Defeats ECM if used outside of it's 180 range
+ Has a range of 750m
- Requires an Energy Hardpoint

Narc
+ Maintains a homing signal for 20 seconds even if nobody has a LOS to the target
- Will not work if inside the range of enemy ECM
- Requires a missile hardpoint
- Weighs 4 tons for the launcher and one ton of ammo

Artemis is the only guidance system that requires you have it installed yourself. Teammates can use TAG and Narc for you. If your only concerned with using LRMs and have no intention of depending on other people to target enemies, I would say go for TAG because you can target enemies with ECM that you can visually see but not lock onto otherwise. Artemis potentially maximizes your damage because of the bonus to grouping, but requires LOS and is a pretty big investment if you have a large number of missile launchers.

[Ewigan]

take both.

[Grey Ghost]

Seth, on 24 January 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Narc
+ Maintains a homing signal for 20 seconds even if nobody has a LOS to the target

I'm fairly sure one of the major complaints about Narc, besides it's brief duration, is that it requires LoS (MWO wise, not Lore wise).

[UnseenFury]

Corison, on 24 January 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

You however need to use both IMO.
1) Tag will help allies, and give you a lock on through ECM.
2) Artemis will tighten up your missile spread allowing you to do more damage.

Ewigan, on 24 January 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

take both.

Have decency to read 1st post before posting in a thread, thank you.

[Dirus Nigh]

Corison, on 24 January 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

You however need to use both IMO.
1) Tag will help allies, and give you a lock on through ECM.
2) Artemis will tighten up your missile spread allowing you to do more damage.

My thoughts exactly.

Grey Ghost, on 25 January 2013 - 01:11 AM, said:

I'm fairly sure one of the major complaints about Narc, besides it's brief duration, is that it requires LoS (MWO wise, not Lore wise).

Correct. The biggest complaint against narc is that it is doing far less that what it is supposed to do according to the source material. ECM on the other hand does more.

The two things that would make narc worth using are increasing the duration of an attached beacon to 30 seconds, and the ability for the narc beacon to 'spot' on their own.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 26 January 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[UnseenFury]

Seth, on 24 January 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Artemis, TAG, and Narc will all increase the tracking strength of LRMs by 50%. They don't stack the tracking bonus, so you can't combine them all to have LRMs that track 2.5x better than standard LRMs.

I only use my missile boat for fun, it is slow and you are dead meat if you have no support from your mates.

I remember how I was killing 4-5 Atlases a match with my missile boat back in closet beta, when all the missiles were damaging Atlas' cockpit.

Here is my missile boat build - http://mwo.smurfy-ne...10f76788969f36f

[Void Angel]

(Attempts Australian accent) That's not a missile boat. This is a missile boat.

Edited by Void Angel, 30 January 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[evilC]

To add to what has already been said.

Artemis require Line Of Sight to the target.

Sometimes it can be hard to judge if you have LOS (eg trees blocking view).

If within 750m, turn your TAG on and if they get painted, you have LOS.

The most fun LRM builds IMHO use TAG, Artemis, high speed and JumpJets - a 2xALRM15, 3xML, 1xTAG Cat C1 with jumpjets is an excellent LRM mech and great fun, whilst requiring a decent amount of skill to play to it's full potential.

[FerrolupisXIII]

evilC, on 05 February 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

The most fun LRM builds IMHO use TAG, Artemis, high speed and JumpJets - a 2xALRM15, 3xML, 1xTAG Cat C1 with jumpjets is an excellent LRM mech and great fun, whilst requiring a decent amount of skill to play to it's full potential.

I've been running around with this today. max engine is so fun! basically preparing for the Trench Bucket.

to the OP: basically, you should have both. I'm well known in my group as being an LRM fan, have since the days of getting laughed off the field for bringing my LRM catapult. they both offer huge improvements and utility.

Artemis lets you lock on faster, as well as making maintaining it easier if you're on the move/ tracking a quick mover. this applies without L.O.S. which is why i personally like it.

Artemis, when you have L.O.S., clusters your missiles for more hits on target, as well as making them track better, again increasing hits on target.

TAG gives better lock time, better cluster, and allows you to cut through ECM. but you must have LOS to do it yourself. However, a teammate can use TAG to light up an enemy unit for you to fire on from out of LOS as well.

Personally, i encourage the LRM boats to carry Artemis, as well as a TAG (lets face it, you probably aren't scaring anyone with a dedicated LRM boat's backup weapons anyways, so one less energy isn't going to make much of a difference!) I also try and encourage anyone that can in my team to free up the space for a TAG, as its utility is great. particularly people that have not filled their Energy Hard points anyways, so you aren't asking them to remove a weapon.

Other Suggestions: Modules are your friend! if you have the master you can run the Advanced Sensor Range and Targeting Delay modules, which greatly improve your ability to gain and keep locks. if you have the slot the Info Gathering module is also great so you know whats damaged.

also, despite what you may see, i find it more efficient to bring a decently balanced build instead of cramming LRM's in. 2x LRM-20's is fairly easy to keep cool so you can fire as much as you like, and 6 tons of ammo usually keeps me fed unless its a really long match. with those there is usually plenty of space to keep a decent sized engine, and a couple of good backup weapons. I've had my maneuverability save me in many tight spots, getting those couple meters you need to fire an LRM volley, or finishing off a damaged mech with well placed laser fire.

Here is my CPLT-C1, i happen to have a founders so i like to run it:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...adf2a5c71c52959

Runs nice and cool, and she's fast, for an LRM cat. use your speed to stay away from big units and blast em from 300-400 meters away. laser to taste!

[Kingdok]

I was going to post a lengthy reply to this, but Ferrolupis hit all my points. I run all the LRM upgrades available (except NARC) in my Stalker 5S, and it works very well.

Edited by Kingdok, 11 February 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[evilC]

Yeah, I have been running the same build, but max armour and 1 less HS.
Since the jumpjet changes, this mech is even better.
I am also using this to practice for the trebuchet.