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A Mathchmaking System For Mwo.


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#1 Decaysa

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:00 AM

My proposal relies on the combination of an elo ranking system with battle value.
Definition:
ELO -- A numeric number that represents the players skill.
BV  -- A numeric number that represents the combat capabilities of the players currently selected mech.

I have nothing to say about determining ELO, This is a well studied problem.

My ideas around BV :
- Each mech chassis and variant should be assigned a BV.
- Any upgrades like double heat sinks should have an impact on BV.
- Weapon system may also have an impact. An ac20 should have a higher BV than a machine gun.
- Clan tech should have much higher BV's than inner sphere tech.
- BV values may be adjusted for balance reasons based on a variety of stats like how much the tech is dropped with,win rates etc.

Now for the matchmaking algorithm:

Step 1.

Select 16 players with similar elo rating.
Only elo is considered in step 1 because, skill peers playing together is of paramount importance.

Step 2.

Build 2 groups of 8 from the 16 with balanced total BV and mech class.
Balancing the BV value is of higher importance than the classes.
2 assaults vs 1 etc is allowed but the matchmaker makes a best effort to maintain the class balance while
focussing on BV balance.
I'm of the opinion that elo can be completely disregarded in this step.
Step 1 has already made sure that the players are of similar skill level.
I dislike the notion that an extremely high elo player must play with the worst of the rest on his team.

Step 3.

After the match is over. Adjust elo scores based purely on the normal elo math.


Discussion.

I really believe this matchmaking model will alow for balanced interesting matches. And this is achieved without the need
to have boring perfect balancing of all mechs and variants. If systems like ecm or clan tech is deemed really strong
their bv can be adjusted upwards. This will mean that if you use them your "weight" in the match is higher.
Mechs like the awesome can now be competitive because they will have a lower BV value than an Atlas DDC.
The power difference between clan and inner spher tech can now be introduced to the game withou obsoleting the inner sphere tech.

And best of all this introduces another variable to consider when constructing a mech.

Edited by Decaysa, 31 January 2013 - 03:47 AM.


#2 Trulock

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:18 AM

Do this please PGI!

#3 Particle Man

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:42 AM

And how does this effect community warfare and the things we'll be doing in it?
How does this effect teams wanting to play as a team and possibly against a specific team in a game designed around team play?
How does this effect wait times and the ability to find a match?

#4 Regrets

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:16 AM

View PostParticle Man, on 31 January 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

And how does this effect community warfare and the things we'll be doing in it?
How does this effect teams wanting to play as a team and possibly against a specific team in a game designed around team play?
How does this effect wait times and the ability to find a match?


The match maker is terrible cause it pairs teams against nubs who don't know... well they literally don't know anything. A large proportion of matches pubbing it doesn't matter what you say our do, your team is going to mindlessly zerg forward. I'm sure there is more to it than that, but it is certainly a pretty terrible experience when it goes down like this. Pretty much a waste of time for everyone involved.

Edited by Regrets, 31 January 2013 - 03:18 AM.


#5 Trulock

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:28 AM

View PostParticle Man, on 31 January 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

And how does this effect community warfare and the things we'll be doing in it?
How does this effect teams wanting to play as a team and possibly against a specific team in a game designed around team play?
How does this effect wait times and the ability to find a match?



Not sure about community. But just for the current game state it would improve solo and 4 man games greatly. Might even make it possible to allow more than 4 man groups again. So many times we have 5-6 people in TS and I would love for all of us to drop together and for them to have a greater freedom in what type of mech to use(BV will make it fair).

This should not affect lobby at all. Lobby should be freestyle and up to the 2 groups dropping against each other allowing for third party tournaments etc.

It works like most of these systems do in games like LOL etc. Wait time gets used to adjust the parameters of the matchmaker. If you wait longer it will become less and less strict untill 16 players are chosen.

#6 Decaysa

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:53 AM

Please note that there is no hard rules when balancing for BV. It's best effort.

The wait times for games should be identical to the wait times in the ELO based matchmaking system that will be deployed in february.

This algorithm will work well with groups. The total BV of each group will be considered when building the two teams of 8.

Edited by Decaysa, 31 January 2013 - 03:53 AM.


#7 Congzilla

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:52 AM

View PostParticle Man, on 31 January 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

And how does this effect community warfare and the things we'll be doing in it?
How does this effect teams wanting to play as a team and possibly against a specific team in a game designed around team play?
How does this effect wait times and the ability to find a match?

It would be pretty easy to say that X contract has Y tonnage limit. CW won't be able to use ELO anyhow since anyone can bid on and win contracts (at least at the independent Merc Corp level).

#8 Hanith

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:30 AM

I also like a ranking system idea. I desparately want a new MM system as I just got out of a game where we started the match with only 6 mechs (enemy had 8) and had 1 DC (bringing my team's total down to 5). Annoyingly enough, this is somewhat common.

#9 FiveDigits

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:36 AM

Battle Value is a nice concept, but I don't think it is flexible enough in an online game environment with ongoing balancing and meta gaming shifts.
That's why I suggested applying an Ele-esque system to the 'Mechs as well.

This is the thread: Competetive Mech'tchmaking

#10 Decaysa

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:23 AM

I completely agree that BV should be dynamic. Using the ELO system to determine the BV for mechs would work well. I really don't like the way you are combining ELO and BV for matchmaking though. The primary objective of matchmaking is to match up players of similar skill levels. A new player in a DDC is still a new player. That's why Step 1 in my algorithm only considers ELO. Once the 16 players have been selected though BV is great to balance the match for them.

Edited by Decaysa, 31 January 2013 - 07:24 AM.


#11 Pachar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:09 AM

I like any system that helps balance the mechs being dropped in.
Combine that with ELO and you have better matches.
That being said this system seems a little overly complicated. This system would be a bit much IMO.

Edited by Pachar, 31 January 2013 - 08:11 AM.


#12 IceSerpent

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:10 AM

View PostDecaysa, on 31 January 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

My ideas around BV :
- Each mech chassis and variant should be assigned a BV.
- Any upgrades like double heat sinks should have an impact on BV.
- Weapon system may also have an impact. An ac20 should have a higher BV than a machine gun.
- Clan tech should have much higher BV's than inner sphere tech.
- BV values may be adjusted for balance reasons based on a variety of stats like how much the tech is dropped with,win rates etc.


A more simple approach would be to base BV on mech capabilities instead of individual items. Something along the lines of BV being equal to the sum of:

Max. speed * X1
Armor * X2
Heat efficiency * X3
Firepower at 0m * X4
Firepower at 270m * X5
Firepower at 600m * X6
Firepower at 1000m * X7
X8 points if ECM is equipped
X9 points if BAP is equipped
etc.

X1...Xn are numeric coefficients that can be tweaked for balancing. This approach also automatically takes care of future tech (Clan, etc.) and can be as detailed as you want - if you want it to be more accurate, you can add more paramteres like torso twist ranges.

Quote

Step 1.

Select 16 players with similar elo rating.
Only elo is considered in step 1 because, skill peers playing together is of paramount importance.


Potential problem: players with very high or very low ELO rating won't be able to play at all, unless there are 15 more players with similar rating currently playing. A better approach would be to match combined ELO rating between teams, this way one very bad player and one very good player can be matched against two average players.

Quote

Step 2.

Build 2 groups of 8 from the 16 with balanced total BV and mech class.


What if you can't? How would it handle a situation of 15 "fully pimped" Ravens and 1 stock Spider for example?

#13 Particle Man

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:10 PM

View PostRegrets, on 31 January 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:


The match maker is terrible cause it ...



the matchmaker we have now is temporary and has long been said will be replaced with 'tier' 3 though.

why are we trying to fix what is already being fixed? except we're doing it based on limited info on what is to come and the actual numbers of what's really happening.

I'm not saying that what we have now isnt messed up and i hate playing against sync dropping sissies as much as the rest of us, but why waste time fixing something that is already being worked on? Should they stop what they're doing to completely redo the temporary thing we have now?

#14 Max Fury

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

After checking my stats (being a PUG) I have a 35% win rate with 117 matches. So shouldn't I be placed in a match with just other PUGS? Instead I end up on a team with nothing but PUGS with temp mechs against a 4 man team with specialized mechs and get consistently steamrolled. This really needs to be fixed because I am getting to the point that I am not even trying to stay alive knowing that I can’t win. Instead I am going for volume of battles not quality so I can afford to get a decent mech so I can stand a better chance and maybe have a fun time playing.

#15 Regrets

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

View PostParticle Man, on 31 January 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:



the matchmaker we have now is temporary and has long been said will be replaced with 'tier' 3 though.

why are we trying to fix what is already being fixed? except we're doing it based on limited info on what is to come and the actual numbers of what's really happening.

I'm not saying that what we have now isnt messed up and i hate playing against sync dropping sissies as much as the rest of us, but why waste time fixing something that is already being worked on? Should they stop what they're doing to completely redo the temporary thing we have now?


This precisely.

View PostMax Fury, on 31 January 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

After checking my stats (being a PUG) I have a 35% win rate with 117 matches. So shouldn't I be placed in a match with just other PUGS? Instead I end up on a team with nothing but PUGS with temp mechs against a 4 man team with specialized mechs and get consistently steamrolled. This really needs to be fixed because I am getting to the point that I am not even trying to stay alive knowing that I can’t win. Instead I am going for volume of battles not quality so I can afford to get a decent mech so I can stand a better chance and maybe have a fun time playing.






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