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Summon Bigger Fish And The Godzilla Threshold


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#1 Codejack

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

http://www.simpsoncr...bart-the-mother

...

KENT

Our top story, the population of parasitic tree lizards has exploded, and local citizens couldn't be happier! It seems the rapacious reptiles have developed a taste for the common pigeon, also known as the 'feathered rat', or the 'gutter bird'. For the first time, citizens need not fear harassment by flocks of chattering disease-bags.

Later, Bart receives an award from Mayor Quimby outside the town hall. Several lizards slink past.

QUIMBY

For decimating our pigeon population, and making Springfield a less oppressive place to while away our worthless lives, I present you with this scented candle.

Skinner talks to Lisa.

SKINNER

Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.

LISA

But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?

SKINNER

No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.

LISA

But aren't the snakes even worse?

SKINNER

Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.

LISA

But then we're stuck with gorillas!

SKINNER

No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.





The game has passed the Godzilla Threshold:

http://tvtropes.org/...dzillaThreshold

Quote

Godzilla Threshold

There is wisdom in facing a threat with a proportionate response. Sure, There Is No Kill Like Overkill, but it'll likely cause a lot of avoidable collateral damage, and it'll guarantee that tomorrow the next threat is stronger. But there are times when the threat is so great and things have gone so horribly wrong that there is no appropriate response. The situation is so dire that it justifies the use of any and every thing that might solve it, no matter how crazy, nonsensical, or horrific, regardless of cost or collateral damage.

Things are at the point where even summoning Godzilla, king of monsters and patron saint of collateral damage, could not possibly make the crisis any worse. The situation has crossed the Godzilla Threshold.



This is where experience comes in; veteran gamers know that this is where you have to get sneaky. Newbies usually wind up casting Summon Bigger Fish:

http://tvtropes.org/...ummonBiggerFish


Quote

Summon Bigger Fish

Of course there is Always a Bigger Fish, but sometimes they aren't willing to just pop up out of nowhere and get you out of the current mess. That's where this trope comes in. Summon Bigger Fish is when you get another monster/god/whatever to fight the current one, and hope once the smoke is cleared the one you just called will leave you alone, or at least be weakened enough by the fight to be taken out with less insane tactics. Sadly, the odds that doing this only makes things worse is actually almost 50/50— Evil Is Not a Toy, after all— but then again, once you've crossed the Godzilla Threshold, anything is a viable option.


This had been escalating prior to the existence of ECM, certainly, but that is when it passed the Godzilla Threshold.

There is a reason these are called, "tropes;" they are the stereotypical common mistakes that lead to situational comedy. Is this supposed to be the first Massively-Multiplayer Online Sit-Com?

This is why no one agrees on what they think should be fixed, but everyone thinks it's broken, now.


Posted Image

*The best part is that it explains the existence of Jar-Jar Binks and Queen Amidala as due to being forced to roleplay with an 8-year-old girl


The problem is that it inevitably leads to...

Posted Image

#2 Hot Rod

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

well...

i...

hm...

i am outa here!

#3 Solis Obscuri

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

Holy ****, Codejack just brought balance to the Force!

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 31 January 2013 - 03:02 PM.


#4 Hot Rod

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

View PostSolis Obscuri, on 31 January 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Holy ****, Codejack just brought balance to the Force!


psst

#5 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:03 PM

:mellow:

#6 KharnZor

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:04 PM

View PostHot Rod, on 31 January 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

well...

i...

hm...

i am outa here!

Hold the door open for me, i'm right behind you!! !! :mellow: :P :lol:

#7 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:07 PM

This thread is perfect, and describes the situation at hand with utmost perfection.



I am not being sarcastic.

#8 Hawkeye 72

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

This is the best post I have read here in 5 months.

This should be stickied as an example to all forum users that, if you are going to make an argument or point on these forums, this is how you do it.

In fact lets put this as the standard format for posting in the CoC

#9 Hot Rod

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

View Postmwhighlander, on 31 January 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

This thread is perfect, and describes the situation at hand with utmost perfection.

I am not being sarcastic.


just don't do it! it could become a ... and if thy do... you know? it can't be! you know the ring theory?

Edited by Hot Rod, 31 January 2013 - 03:17 PM.


#10 ObsidianSpectre

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

There've been a number of threads along these same lines since the latest attempts at adding a bit more balance to ECM. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this problem.

#11 Novawrecker

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:44 PM

Codejack .... stop jacking on the code :mellow:

#12 Steven Dixon

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:46 PM

An entertaining post, but I'm a little confused. A lot of what the OP was talking about were TV tropes and are indicative of sloppy writing in a non-interactive environment rather than balance in an interactive media. Of course their is also a logical fallacy involved which is very relevant which basically involves fixing today's problems at the expense of creating a bigger problem in the future. My understanding is that is what the OP is saying is that the devs completely messed up with the creation of ECM and now the game is ruined (or will be)?

If this is the argument I must disagree. First it seems that you would have to agree that the primary purpose of ECM was to counter Streaks, which would be a kind of Godzilla argument. However I don't agree, ECM was created to change how the game was played and add new dynamics to gameplay. A shift like this is inherently going to cause problems, some of these problems will resolve themselves as people learn to adapt, others will hinder game play and need to be corrected.

The devs are taking time to fix ECM because they are analyzing the situation and how to best correct it rather than a simple gut reaction (which leads to an out of control spiral such as the Godzilla example). Or perhaps the point is that the PPC change was the out of control factor, which I also disagree with. They are adding a new variable and seeing how it interacts with the player environment. This is what beta testing is all about, and even to those who argue that the game is no longer in beta because they are accepting real cash, this isn't relevant in this instance because the devs do consider this to be in beta and treat it as such. The counter argument to this would basically mean that the devs shouldn't really add in any new features or mechanics and simply tweak what we have and add new maps and mechs (a valid point if someone wishes to make it even if I wouldn't agree).

BTW, ECM wasn't a fix to streaks, their are still many proposed fixes to streaks (like with many other weapons), one of them is to simply have streaks no longer autohit the CT. They are still experimenting.

#13 Agent 0 Fortune

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

First there was FastBacks running around at 130 kph killing everything.
Then there were engine restrictions and everything was slow.
Then came the LRMs raining down on everything slow.
Then came the light mechs hunting down LRM boats.
Then came the Streak Cats killing all the light mechs.
Then came the ECM making the light mechs invincible.
Then came the lagshield making the light mechs more invincible.
Then came the TAG that did nothing.
Then came PPCs that did nothing.
Then came the Flamer and MG upgrades….

#14 Virtusx

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

Posted Image

#15 Rokuzachi

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:01 PM

MWO Forum Thread of the Year!

#16 GalaxyBluestar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:21 PM

yes rather than this list...

hunchi's too fast - make better netcode and fix knockdown so people could take them down and pilots become more weary of where they're travelling.

we got...

engine restrictions and a developing lagshield

when we should of had this....

light's able to go fast and develope lag shield - optomise and fix lag shield

we got...

more purchasable items and ssrm homing missles to break lag shield mechs.

so now instead of fixing like this...

streak cats thrive on newly discovered easy mode garrentee hit weapon for equal footing against lag mechs - fix lag and fix ssrms being so lololol fire and forget weapon.


we then got this...

ecm destorys lock on weapons {including those that didn't need the fix lrms} so lag mechs can now exclusively use ssrms as well making them game breaking good.

seeing what was happening we should have got this...

ecm is toned down along with ssrms making each different mech competative in it's own right

we got this...

tag is buffed and lrn2ply

now we should have this...

ecm is toned down along with ssrms making each different mech competative in it's own right {still need some more netcode but theres been an improvement}

what we're going to get is this...

no fixes but buff up ppcs so that ecm and ppcs along with ssrms become fotm and ballistics and lasers will be ineffective.


tl;dr:

in short codejack summoned big fish to explain how devs make game an always one fish dominant enviroment.

expect QQ ppc's op posts soon.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 31 January 2013 - 04:23 PM.


#17 Agent 0 Fortune

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:30 PM

View PostGalaxyBluestar, on 31 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

expect QQ ppc's op posts soon.


Not going to happen. PPC only disrupt ECM on the mech you hit. Of course the ECM mech does not have to have line of sight for its ECM to work. So as long as the ECM mech doesn't stand in front of your PPC, it is still protecting the entire team.

I do think more people will play with PPCs in hopes of negating ECM, however the QQ post will come from the PPC users who can't disrupt the ECM protected Stalker, then continue to complain about the heat of PPCs, then about the damage of PPCs, and eventually about convergence because the PPC bolts cross infront or behind enemies.

#18 Coolwhoami

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:57 PM

what in the holy hell

#19 Ter Ushaka

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:14 PM

A horrible OP for a horrible thread, in a horrible planet in a horrible arm of a horrible galaxy.

It's home.

#20 Coolwhoami

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:30 PM

Where it belongs :shobon:



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