108 replies to this topic

[croatoan]

Your company is commiting FRAUD.

You are not legally allowed to charge a customer money for an item and then at some point in the future decide your customer did not pay enough and you "refund" them and then charge them higher prices...


Since you may not be SMART enough to realize the FRAUD you are doing, let me put it in terms you can understand.

I purchase an storage account ( virtual ) from a hosting company.
the one year price is paid in full upfront.
after 1 month, the storage company decides to change its pricing structure, so it refunds me all of my money by sending me gift certificates cashable ONLY at its own company store, and then sends me an INCREASED BILL for the one year rental.

Now my "gift certificate" or "company store credit" doesnt cover the cost of the original price agreed on by both parties.

CAN YOU SEE WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS FRAUD ?????


I suggest everyone contact their Credit card company to demand a chargeback for FRAUD by MWO.

their actions are CLEARLY FRAUDULENT in every sense of the word, they took money from the customers in good faith for virtual products... and now have retroactively changed the pricing but not the CONVERTED new CASH value the good would be worth.

this is FRAUD by any definition of the word.

Prepare for loss of Credit card billing, it can only take 6 chargebacks to shutdown an account so that you can NEVER take another CC payment again.

FIX THE FRAUD.

[croatoan]

this was in relation to the new "paint scheme fraud" costs being raised retroactively.

[Norris J Packard]

You paid for MC, not paint or cockpit items or Mechs.

You paid for MC, and you got the amount of MC you paid for.

Also - I should note, a business is not a person. If you could shut down a business via chargeback limitations then oh boy, would a lot of companies be in trouble.

Edited by Norris J Packard, 07 February 2013 - 03:13 AM.

[croatoan]

let me explain why you are wrong on both statements:

FIRST of all a business that is "incorporated" is considered for all legal purposes the same as a person.
Secondly, I purchased MC directly to buy the paint schemes, if they are going to change the "cost" of the paint schemes then i should be refunded my money, not the "store credit" option we received.

This is FRAUD by anyway you look at it... now if they had given the players the option to "OPT OUT" and receive the real world money back ... then it is NOT FRAUD.

But you cant just change the price retroactively and refund with store credit... that is clearly FRAUD.

And i work for a bank in the CC department btw, chargebacks are serious business and chargebacks for "Intentional Fraud" are the kind that get your company blacklisted on the "MATCH LIST" for fraudulent Credit card practices.

The "MATCH LIST" ( TMF file in industry jargon ) is a blacklist that all banks use to determine if a business can process CC transactions. If your business is on this list you can expect that NO BANK will allow you to use their systems to process CC transactions. Can you process in the future? maybe ... but you will be paying much higher rates and unable to work with the major banks.

[Jape]

Are the single use color prices really now higher than before?

[Ken Fury]

Jape, on 07 February 2013 - 03:32 AM, said:

Are the single use color prices really now higher than before?

You are correct, Single USE is way lower now, permanent is a new option, but some people can neither read nor think. They should refund their brainzs.

[Arete]

Since prices on paint/patterns are WAY lower now, I really can't see the "FRAUD" part of it.

[Norris J Packard]

croatoan, on 07 February 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

let me explain why you are wrong on both statements:

FIRST of all a business that is "incorporated" is considered for all legal purposes the same as a person.
Secondly, I purchased MC directly to buy the paint schemes, if they are going to change the "cost" of the paint schemes then i should be refunded my money, not the "store credit" option we received.

This is FRAUD by anyway you look at it... now if they had given the players the option to "OPT OUT" and receive the real world money back ... then it is NOT FRAUD.

But you cant just change the price retroactively and refund with store credit... that is clearly FRAUD.

And i work for a bank in the CC department btw, chargebacks are serious business and chargebacks for "Intentional Fraud" are the kind that get your company blacklisted on the "MATCH LIST" for fraudulent Credit card practices.

The "MATCH LIST" ( TMF file in industry jargon ) is a blacklist that all banks use to determine if a business can process CC transactions. If your business is on this list you can expect that NO BANK will allow you to use their systems to process CC transactions. Can you process in the future? maybe ... but you will be paying much higher rates and unable to work with the major banks.

Ya, that's nice, but let's talk for a second here. Alright?

First of all - PGI is the company that makes the game, but IGP are the guys who actually receive the cash at the end of the day. Regardless, both of these companies are located in Canada and IGP is owned by a rather large financial group whose name escapes me at the moment. So ya, there's that.

Second - a very large number of chargebacks must have occurred during the end of Closed Beta when PGI announced that they would be mucking around with our Premium Time. Thus coupled with general charge backs that must of occurred given the sample size throughout Closed Beta says to me that IGP just isn't concerned.

By all means, get your money back via charge-back. Or you could just email them and ask for it back nicely.

Edited by Norris J Packard, 07 February 2013 - 03:56 AM.

[Hekalite]

While I can agree with your sentiment, I suspect if you email customer service and ask them to resolve the situation, they will refund the purchase price of the MC. You shouldn't ask for a charge-back unless you have already given the company a chance to address the situation. It's been a long time since I read my credit card agreement, but I believe that is a requirement of asking for a charge-back.

[croatoan]

i want either my real world cash back, or the equivalent MC cost to purchase the same paint schemes again.

as for people who say "single use paint schemes are cheaper now"

if that is true, why cant i purchase the same paint schemes with the same amount of MC ?

SIngle use paint schemes still require you to "buy" the paint at a higher price again which to explain it to you means that it is MORE EXPENSIVE not less.

If i could get the same paint schemes with the MC they refunded me this wouldnt be a problem at all.

[Hekalite]

croatoan, on 07 February 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

i want either my real world cash back, or the equivalent MC cost to purchase the same paint schemes again.

as for people who say "single use paint schemes are cheaper now"

if that is true, why cant i purchase the same paint schemes with the same amount of MC ?

SIngle use paint schemes still require you to "buy" the paint at a higher price again which to explain it to you means that it is MORE EXPENSIVE not less.

If i could get the same paint schemes with the MC they refunded me this wouldnt be a problem at all.

Since my previous post was obviously not direct enough...

You won't get a cash refund by posting in the forum. You must contact customer service for any chance of that.

[Xendojo]

This thread is almost useless.

Why are you ranting on the forums? If you really want your money back you should be taking steps to get it. Are you trying to get support here? Is that what you are after? Because i don't see any way that coming to the feedback forum and posting a threatening rant helps your case.

They changed the way that people can purchase cosmetic items. They gave you back the MC you spent previously. Because they changed the mechanic behind the purchase, prices have changed.

Deal with it.

Edited by Xendojo, 07 February 2013 - 04:27 AM.

[croatoan]

im not posting on a forum to get a refund. If that wasnt clear ill explain it again:

i am posting so that the consumers who Previously purchased items or goods from MWO can understand that they have the option to fight back against this greedy Fraud by contacting their banks.

since my previous post was not direct enough for you:

this business decision they made amounts to fraud. They are taking an already COMPLETED transaction and then refunding your money for "store credit" and then raising the price of what you already purchased...

if you cant understand that this is FRAUD, im not sure what will convince you.
The only power the consumer has is to vote with their wallets, and MWO has decided to DEFRAUD its customers.

im not asking you to do anything. Im just explaining to other players WHAT their options are in regards to Chargebacks.

[Xendojo]

croatoan, on 07 February 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

im not posting on a forum to get a refund. If that wasnt clear ill explain it again:

i am posting so that the consumers who Previously purchased items or goods from MWO can understand that they have the option to fight back against this greedy Fraud by contacting their banks.

since my previous post was not direct enough for you:

this business decision they made amounts to fraud. They are taking an already COMPLETED transaction and then refunding your money for "store credit" and then raising the price of what you already purchased...

if you cant understand that this is FRAUD, im not sure what will convince you.
The only power the consumer has is to vote with their wallets, and MWO has decided to DEFRAUD its customers.

im not asking you to do anything. Im just explaining to other players WHAT their options are in regards to Chargebacks.

Wrong. They are refunding your store credit for store credit. Your money turned into store credit when you bought your MC.

[croatoan]

Xendojo, on 07 February 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

This thread is almost useless.

Why are you ranting on the forums? If you really want your money back you should be taking steps to get it. Are you trying to get support here? Is that what you are after? Because i don't see any way that coming to the feedback forum and posting a threatening rant helps your case.

They changed the way that people can purchase cosmetic items. They gave you back the MC you spent previously. Because they changed the mechanic behind the purchase, prices have changed.

Deal with it.

yes, people "DEAL WITH IT" in different ways... some people like yourself get bent over by a company and then thank them for it...

I choose to stand up for myself and help INFORM other players of the FRAUD and give them the information to help fight it.

and i would prefer to have the paint schemes i already PAID for... i only want my money back if they wont honor the previous transactions. ( not honoring the previous completed transaction is one of the definitions of FRAUD btw )

Xendojo, on 07 February 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

Wrong. They are refunding your store credit for store credit. Your money turned into store credit when you bought your MC.

ok so if i go into a store and purchase something with real cash... the company delivers the items to me, then 3 months later decides that they want to make MORE profit on PREVIOUS transactions so they come and take the items away... give me "store credit" that isnt enough to buy the item again....you dont have a problem with that? SERIOUSLY?

damn sheeple.

[Rushin Roulette]

Wow... a rant QQ on these forums without detailed information... thats something compeltely new.

How about you list which paints you bought for which mechs before the refund and we can analyze how you were ripped off.

For your infomration... As aou are talking about the paint schemes you have to realize one really big change in the way they are set up.

You can buy single use paints (the same as they were before the change) for a lower price than they were before... also adding to that, there is currently a sale for various paints and camos. On the other hand, there are permanent unlocks which are more expensive than before but can be used unlimited on every single mech you own and will ever own (colours) or can be used on any particular mech chassie you currently or will ever own in the future (Camo unlocks).

While I do agree, that the camo unlocks per chassie are a bit on the expensive side (especially as the number of variants is strongly limited), the colour unlocks are pretty good value for money.

In the end, thie means that you eitehr pay less for the same as you had before, or you pay more and get far more than you had before. No need to pay seperately for every Atlas you own in your mech bay as it was before...

What exactly is fraudulent in this business? Please enlighten us.

[Xendojo]

croatoan, on 07 February 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

yes, people "DEAL WITH IT" in different ways... some people like yourself get bent over by a company and then thank them for it...

I choose to stand up for myself and help INFORM other players of the FRAUD and give them the information to help fight it.

and i would prefer to have the paint schemes i already PAID for... i only want my money back if they wont honor the previous transactions. ( not honoring the previous completed transaction is one of the definitions of FRAUD btw )



ok so if i go into a store and purchase something with real cash... the company delivers the items to me, then 3 months later decides that they want to make MORE profit on PREVIOUS transactions so they come and take the items away... give me "store credit" that isnt enough to buy the item again....you dont have a problem with that? SERIOUSLY?

damn sheeple.

You just don't get it do you. The ONLY thing you actually purchased with "real money" is MC. Read that as "store credit".

Your argument is invalid.

Leaving thread now.

[croatoan]

ok i had purchased 5 mech paint schemes that were all different.

that means i had 5 mechs painted in different ways. I paid for each of these with REAL MONEY.

now as of the recent patch, i was refunded what i paid but i am unable to even purchase ONE of the paint schemes i had previously because the paint costs are now for multiple mechs.

i was only refunded 2500 or so MC, but to buy even just ONE phranken paint scheme "single use" it costs me 4500 MC....

see the fraud and the additional cost now?

YES if i wanted to paint every mech the same stupid scheme it would be cheaper... but CRAZY ME i wanted to have different schemes....

and i wanted what i paid for previously... the transaction was completed. They already had my money... clearly it wasnt enough for them.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Fraud? Lol? They gave you back the MC pal. Fraud would be if they kept your MC then charged you more since you already purchased. Fyi, the skins and paints cost less now than before. Phranken is 125 per Mech once you pay for the 3 colors... how the hell is that "more"? People complaining about this new system seem to have no idea how it works. It's actually cheaper to use, across the board, than it was before! Sure you'll have to pay 3,125 for the first Phranken but then you own the 3 color paints, meaning 125 per every Mech afterwards. I paid 1k for my precious black and that's all I'll ever have to pay to coat every current and future Mech. Previously it would have been over 1k per mech.

[croatoan]

Xendojo, on 07 February 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

You just don't get it do you. The ONLY thing you actually purchased with "real money" is MC. Read that as "store credit".

Your argument is invalid.

Leaving thread now.

no, you are wrong and let me explain it to you again as you just dont seem to understand what a "COMPLETED TRANSACTION" means... every single time you use a check or credit card you are entering into a "contract".

They provide the item... i provide the cash.
they have now taken back the item priced it higher... and refunded me my cash in store credit.

if this was Mcdonalds:

Customer enters , hands over money and wait for food. Food is delivered... eaten and customer gets up to leave.
Employees immediatly PUMP his stomach... removing all the food he previously purchased, RAISE the prices on the same food, then hand him back his money in store credit.

can you see the problem ?