17 replies to this topic

[Zero Neutral]

SRM6 and SRM4 with and without Artemis.



Some people seem to think that Artemis benefits SRM the most at high range, whereas the truth, as far as I can see, is that Artemis benefits SRM the most at ranges closer to 0 by improving the grouping of the missiles just after firing. At higher ranges the benefit of Artemis, for SRM usage, is almost nothing.

Also, take note of the 125m (3:09) SWEET SPOT, where regardless of having Artemis, all missiles converge on a single point.

Just posting to put this info out there. I think that Artemis is worthwhile if you have space and tons for it, but not worthwhile to MAKE space and tons for it. Not for SRM, that is. I hope that this has saved some people tons and crit-slots!

Edited by Zero Neutral, 12 February 2013 - 05:32 AM.

[Zero Neutral]

Bump for appropriate, on topic, discussion about Artemis.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 12 February 2013 - 05:42 AM.

[buttmonkey]

i have often wondered the mchanics of artemis, i use it as i believe it works, but this video makes me wonder if i should take it off.

it would be a nice idea if the artemis was designed so that it makes the missiles converge on the range of your selected target.
so if your target is 150 away then all the srms you fire will converge at 150m.
this would eliminate the sweet spot you talk of and would force people to actually target the ******* mechs they are shooting at!
it would also give artemis a viable role worth the extra slots and tonnage. not sure if its canon though

[GODzillaGSPB]

@Title: "Artemiss"

...I see what you did there.

[Codejack]

buttmonkey, on 12 February 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

not sure if its canon though

Well, we burned that bridge a while back, didn't we?

[Zero Neutral]

buttmonkey, on 12 February 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

i have often wondered the mchanics of artemis, i use it as i believe it works, but this video makes me wonder if i should take it off.

it would be a nice idea if the artemis was designed so that it makes the missiles converge on the range of your selected target.
so if your target is 150 away then all the srms you fire will converge at 150m.
this would eliminate the sweet spot you talk of and would force people to actually target the ******* mechs they are shooting at!
it would also give artemis a viable role worth the extra slots and tonnage. not sure if its canon though

Glad the OP could help enlighten the usefulness of Artemis. I take no credit for the video.

I can see that the benefit comes mostly at ranges closer to zero as Artemis tightens the grouping of the missiles just after launching them. At 125m there is no benefit at all, none. At ranges over 150m the benefit seems to be slim, which imo is not worth making space for its' use.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 12 February 2013 - 05:52 AM.

[Broceratops]

artemis only works on SRMs if you are pointing it at a mech. otherwise it does not give the convergence bonus. that is my understanding of it, according to some dev post somewhere that I cant find.

so your tests shooting at rocks and walls will not actually show the effect of artemis. it is however dubiously useful on moving targets where you have to lead because of this.

[Zero Neutral]

Broceratops, on 12 February 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

artemis only works on SRMs if you are pointing it at a mech. otherwise it does not give the convergence bonus. that is my understanding of it, according to some dev post somewhere that I cant find.

so your tests shooting at rocks and walls will not actually show the effect of artemis. it is however dubiously useful on moving targets where you have to lead because of this.

I would require proof of this statement as it is literally the first time I have ever heard some thing like that.

I am nearly certain that you are incorrect, aside from the minor doubt that you just provided, because convergence is not dependent on aiming at any particular target, but where your reticule lies. Having a target does not affect convergence of any weapon in the game.

[Broceratops]

i tried finding the post but this forums search feature seems to have no ability to sort or filter the randomly returned results, so i gave up pretty quickly.

i guess short of a video demonstration, the only other thing I can say is there is definitely an additional mechanic other than convergence to the crosshair when it comes to artemis. you can see it in lrms since artemis requires line of sight to provide the additional clustering (aka convergence at the target distance) rather than just having them targeted (aka convergence to whatever rock is between you and the target). this feature is documented in the patch notes.

Edited by Broceratops, 12 February 2013 - 06:03 AM.

[buttmonkey]

Zero Neutral, on 12 February 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Glad the OP could help enlighten the usefulness of Artemis. I take no credit for the video.

I can see that the benefit comes mostly at ranges closer to zero as Artemis tightens the grouping of the missiles just after launching them. At 125m there is no benefit at all, none. At ranges over 150m the benefit seems to be slim, which imo is not worth making space for its' use.

i think you mis understood me.
what i am suggesting is that the artemis should actively track your target (if you see what i mean).
so if you have an enemy targetted (in the red box) then the srms you fire will converge on the targets range. so it could be any distance up to the max of 270..
i think this is a good idea as at present you have to lead when shooting srms, so your retiucule could be saying 700m when your target is only 100m.

so being able to target an enemy and have your srms converge on the distance they are at when fired will give artemis a much needed buff and as stated before would require people using it to actually target their enemies

[Zero Neutral]

buttmonkey, on 12 February 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

i think you mis understood me.
what i am suggesting is that the artemis should actively track your target (if you see what i mean).
so if you have an enemy targetted (in the red box) then the srms you fire will converge on the targets range. so it could be any distance up to the max of 270..
i think this is a good idea as at present you have to lead when shooting srms, so your retiucule could be saying 700m when your target is only 100m.

so being able to target an enemy and have your srms converge on the distance they are at when fired will give artemis a much needed buff and as stated before would require people using it to actually target their enemies

I hadn't commented at all regarding your suggestion, but, PGI has already said that convergence is going to stay on the reticule, not the target.

Broceratops, on 12 February 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

i tried finding the post but this forums search feature seems to have no ability to sort or filter the randomly returned results, so i gave up pretty quickly.

i guess short of a video demonstration, the only other thing I can say is there is definitely an additional mechanic other than convergence to the crosshair when it comes to artemis. you can see it in lrms since artemis requires line of sight to provide the additional clustering (aka convergence at the target distance) rather than just having them targeted (aka convergence to whatever rock is between you and the target). this feature is documented in the patch notes.

Yes, for LRM it requires a target and line of sight for the Artemis bonus to be provided to the missile grouping. However, this is not true for SRM.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Well, now I know the perfect range to make my first shot with my splat-cat.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Narcisoldier, on 12 February 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

Well, now I know the perfect range to make my first shot with my splat-cat.

And I know the perfect range to clip your ears off: Every range.

[buttmonkey]

if convergence stays on the reticule then thats really stupid if you ask me, especily if you need to keep the reticule on the target after firing.
what this means is artemis+srm will only ever work if you shoot at a stationary target and keep your reticule on them at all times. only then will the srms converge properly on the target.
if this is the case then nobody is going to use them for srms at all, ever for the simple reason that you need to lead the target, so right there it throws the convergence way off, way to go pgi.

[Zero Neutral]

buttmonkey, on 12 February 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

if convergence stays on the reticule then thats really stupid if you ask me, especily if you need to keep the reticule on the target after firing.
what this means is artemis+srm will only ever work if you shoot at a stationary target and keep your reticule on them at all times. only then will the srms converge properly on the target.
if this is the case then nobody is going to use them for srms at all, ever for the simple reason that you need to lead the target, so right there it throws the convergence way off, way to go pgi.

You are not understanding how convergence works.

Missile convergence does not depend on the reticule targeting distance, missiles converge based on a grouping mechanic.

Lasers, and ballistics, on the other hand, converge on the reticule targeting distance when being fired from arms. This is currently slated to never change.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

GODzillaGSPB, on 12 February 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

And I know the perfect range to clip your ears off: Every range.

If people were actually good at clipping the ears off splat cats at range, nobody would be driving splat cats.

[Zero Neutral]

Narcisoldier, on 12 February 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

If people were actually good at clipping the ears off splat cats at range, nobody would be driving splat cats.

Splat cat doesn't show its' face unless it's going to splat... that is why their ears don't always come off.

[buttmonkey]

Zero Neutral, on 12 February 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

You are not understanding how convergence works.

Missile convergence does not depend on the reticule targeting distance, missiles converge based on a grouping mechanic.

Lasers, and ballistics, on the other hand, converge on the reticule targeting distance when being fired from arms. This is currently slated to never change.

of course lasers etc should converge on reticule.

however artemis costs cbills and tonnage for (as the the op has demonstrated) pretty much nothing.
therefore as i suggested artemis should track your current target and converge/group your srms on that target range. making it worthwhile to purchase and forcing people who use it to target mechs to make their atremis effective. if they dont target the mech they shoot at, then they work as if they were standard.
i think this is a good idea and merits looking into at least, as many people i speak with think artemis+srm is a waste.