4 replies to this topic

[Thejuggla]

I'm not really new to mwo or the series but i wasn't sure where to post.
I have a bit of confusion regarding a few weapon types, we have the UAC5 and the LBXAC10 but what about the missing calibiers? I tried to google the production dates on the missing weapons but couldn't find anything so is this time line related or some other reason?

[BookWyrm]

If it is a part of Battletech lore and not currently included it is related to timeline, which is currently set around 3050.

[101011]

UAC/5's and LBX 10's are years ahead of their fellow UAC/LBX variants. There is no problem here, lore wise the IS recovered them before the other variants.

[Koniving]

The current implementations of the current weapons are limited or in the case of UAC/5 fluff-breaking, but otherwise yes we have what we are supposed to.

What do you mean UAC/5s are fluff breaking?

Spoiler

Fluff is another word for the soft details about lore in how something works.

UAC/5s are fluff breaking because they are of the same caliber as the AC/5, single shot, when they are always described as smaller caliber (meaning more shots to do the same damage). Then from there, UACs come in two versions. 1) Emergency breach-chambers to fire a secondary magazine or load of ammo while reloading the main chamber. Though it can jam, the extra ton is dedicated to a chamber clearing device. 2) Ultra Firing Mode, for belt-fed MG versions of Autocannons, the Ultra Firing Mode doubles the firing rate at the risk of a malfunction which causes a permanent, unfixable (on the field / during the match) jam.

Sarna

Spoiler

Autocannon general.
An Autocannon is a type of rapid-firing, auto-loading direct-fire ballistic weapon, firing HEAP (High-Explosive Armor-Piercing) or kinetic rounds at targets in bursts. It is, basically, a giant "machine gun" that fires predominantly cased explosive shells though models firing saboted high velocity kinetic energy penetrators or caseless ordnance do exist. Among the earliest tank/BattleMech scale weaponry produced, autocannons produce far less heat than energy weapons, but are considerably bulkier and are dependent upon limited stores of ammunition.

Autocannon/5
The Autocannon is a direct-fire ballistic weapon, firing HEAP (High-Explosive Armor-Piercing) rounds at targets either singly or in bursts.
Different manufacturers and models of autocannons have different calibers (25mm-203mm) and rates of fire. Due to this, autocannons are grouped into generic "classes" of autocannons with common damage ratings, with Autocannon/5s usually having a long range with a small to moderate damage level.
An example of the rating system: the Crusher Super Heavy Cannon is a 150mm weapon firing ten shells per "shot", while the Chemjet Gun is a 185mm weapon firing much slower, but causing higher damage. Despite their differences, both are classified as Autocannon/20s due to their damage output.

UACs general.
The Ultra Autocannon technology was originally developed in 2640 by Kawabata Weapons Inc, in response to Defiance Industries's request for a specialized autocannon/5 for their Sentinel BattleMech design. The result was a weapon that resembled the standard model only in the general damage that each round can inflict, as the KWI Ultra Autocannon 5 boasted a shorter smooth-bore barrel, modified breech mechanism, rapid-feed ammo reloader and specially designed ammunition.
While these enhancements gave the weapon an effective range exceeding that of LRMs and standard AC/5s, it most notably allowed the weapon to fire at twice rate of the standard model. Unfortunately, besides generating twice as much heat and burning through ammunition supplies twice as quickly, the extremely high rate of fire causes ultra autocannons to vibrate violently, leading to higher incidence of weapon jams. Though giving the weapon an equivalent volume of fire, because of these vibrations ultra autocannon fire is not as accurate as a pair of standard weapons.
Like many pieces of advanced Star League technology, Kawabata and their unique weapons disappeared during the maelstrom of the Succession Wars, though the Clans retained and refined the technology, eventually producing variants in all autocannon classes. Thanks to the Helm Memory Core, the Successor States regained the ability to produce the original Ultra AC/5 in 3035, and, using this weapon and Clan-tech salvage, were able to introduce Ultra versions of the AC/2 and AC/10 in 3057, finally the AC/20 in 3060.

UAC/5
Introduced in 2640 by the Terran Hegemony[4]. The Ultra Autocannon/5 is an upgraded version of the standard Autocannon/5. Utilizing a different loading mechanism, the Ultra Autocannons are capable of maintaining a substantially increased rate of fire over traditional or LB-X autocannons at the cost of higher heat and the risk of jamming. Of course, the rapid-fire autocannons require a much larger supply of ammunition to maintain their rate of fire. This high dependence on ammunition limits the effectiveness of the weapon. Being of a lower caliber, the Ultra Autocannon/5 has an increased range at the cost of reduced damage over higher-caliber versions.

We are missing some things which we should have.
The LB-10x is supposed to be able to switch between the scatter shot and the AC/10 rounds as slugs.
The AC/10 and other ACs are all supposed to be able to load special ammunitions.

Wait, you said what we have now is limited. What do you mean?
What we do not have, nor can we expect to have as soon as we might like as they are low priority and mainly to expand on both gameplay and on the community warfare aspect, are weapon variants. Choices of different versions of similar weapons.

For example there are at least 4 types of AC/2. There is an AC/20 that fires 100 bullets in the span of a single refire rate of regular AC/20s, which means in MWO it'd fire 100 bullets in 4 seconds, non-stop, with no cooldown. Of course that 100 bullets would deal a total of "20 damage" in 4 seconds and it's basically a 14 ton, heavy bore MG.

The AC/20 (Tomodzuru Autocannon Mount Type 20) that comes stock with the Hunchback 4G is supposed to shoot 4 shots of 5 damage in a rapid burst. Although the one in this MechCommander video uses a different AC/20 called the Defiance 'Mech Hunter which does a 5 shot burst of 4 damage each for less recoil.

Demonstration: AC/20 variants. Devastator (what we have now - listed as Howitzer in the video), Crusher Super Heavy Autocannon, and two test examples of the Chemjet Gun showcased within MWO through hardwork and macros.

General feedback.

Spoiler

Feedback Summary:
Mixed feedback on Chemjet Gun -- some prefer the slower, some prefer the faster.
On Devastator and removing it from the game -- Don't. Instead, change Devastator to 4 DPS, which means 5 seconds between shots. Have all multi-shot versions of AC/20s at 5 DPS which means 4 seconds between trigger pulls.

Details! Includes a count of AC/2, AC/5, AC/10, and AC/20 variants, medium laser variants and gauss rifle variants!

Spoiler

Koniving you just said even an Atlas can't use a Devastator single shot AC/20. Are there mechs that can use single shot AC/20s in lore? Turns out, yes.

I found out there are a few mechs that can use them in lore. Specifically I found two that can use the 203mm AC/20 without falling over. They are mounted on saucer-shaped or phallus shaped mechs, such as King Crab http://www.sarna.net/wiki/King_Crab and Cauldron Born http://www.sarna.net...i/Cauldron_Born [as a single-shot 20 damage, twin-chamber UAC/20] and can probably use them to their wide, stable, and shorter stances compared to most.

If you really compare the Cauldron Born and the King Crab, they are wide, long, short mechs with a profile from the side, top, and front akin to an actual tank. Unlike an Atlas who is essentially a semi-thin tower Eiffel Tower, these tank-like mechs distribute their weight over a wide area. As said in that famous commercial, "Wider is better," and wider vehicles are less likely to flip when force is applied (such as the recoil of the single shot AC/20 that the Atlas must brace himself to avoid falling over to use).

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How many variants are there?

This is not a precise number but...

Evidently there's 13 different variants of regular Gauss Rifles not counting the prototype, or the different classes (light, heavy, etc) which are completely different weapons.
4 specifically named AC/2 variants.
10 unique AC/20 variants, and then 2 or 3 of them have variants of the variants by different manufacturers for a total of 15 of them. (3 variants of the ChemJet Gun variant! ZOMG! O_O).
9 unique variants of the AC/10, with 3 additional variants of one variant for a total of 12.
6 unique AC/5 variants with an additional 3 variants of variants for a total of 9 named.
For random comparison... There are 44 named unique variants of Medium Laser in the Inner Sphere alone, and honestly it'd reach a little over 60 if I were to count the variants of the variants. Then there's the Clan Medium Laser, but technically that's a different weapon altogether.

Is that all the variants?

Apparently no, because as I was looking at the King Crab they list an AC/20 variant that isn't on the variants page. So that's yet another one.

"What is a variant of a variant?" It's the same brand of gun by the same name made by a different company, which may or may not slightly different. This is to compete they would be in a real corporate environment; a way of saying "Buy from us, not them" so to speak. One might have a slower firing rate but faster reload and more accurate as there's more time to compensate for recoil. Another version might space out the shots so it feels more like a machine gun than a battle rifle. A third version might throw all the firepower into a quick burst and fine-tweak it so you don't feel the recoil until near the end, where the original might throw it all into a burst but you feel the recoil immediately.

If you find yourself bored I recently uploaded this. It's an hour long talk about weapon mechanics, variants, concepts, and balancing issues. To keep you entertained it's also me fighting and killing people while having absolutely no sound after the first match. Here, at the time index of 42 minutes, it talks about the AC/10, LB-10x, and then on for ammunition variants. (The weapon and ammo topic starts in the later middle of a repair and rearm discussion).

Now I only covered autocannons. We're also supposed to have different variants of lasers that work in different ways, different versions of SRMs, LRMs, and Streaks. A choice of flamers that work in different ways, and a choice of MGs with different perks. Gauss Rifles that work differently. PPCs of different variations. The upcoming Mortar mounts for the mechs. The list goes on.

Yay for information.

Edited by Koniving, 09 August 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

It's all timeline related. /thread