17 replies to this topic

[MadCat02]

Hey

I am kinda new to using LRMS .

Can someone bring me up to speed and tell me which upgrades worth using and what do they do ?

ARTEMIS- is it just for faster lock on ?

NARC- i have no idea

TAG- Makes more missiles hit ?

How much LRM should i run on Stalker or Atlas ?

Thank you

[scJazz]

1 ) Artemis... faster lock, tighter groups, better tracking... only works if you have LOS

2 ) TAG similar to Artemis... only works if you have LOS and are hitting the target. Also breaks ECM.

3 ) Never use LRM20s... ever. I mean it!

4 ) If you try to Boat LRMs in an Atlas or Stalker some light mech is going to find you and tear you apart.

5 ) read this thread... http://mwomercs.com/...k-my-build-plz/

[Nirina]

LRM are fine when you can fire 30 - 40 missiles at once.

TAG Artemis and Narc make more missiles hit indeed, and speed up the lock-on but you need to hit the ennemy mech with TAG, and have it in your LOS with Artemis. Narc does the same thing but it's a missile that's fixed on and can be destroyed.

I would recommend TAG first, and if you have empty space and tonnage you should look at Artemis.

[Redshift2k5]

Keep in mind that a missile boat does not neccesarily need TAG or NARC- these are tools for a spotter. A missile boat can use it's own TAG or NARC, but then that requires you to have a clear line of sight to the enemy.

The most dangerous missile boats are the ones behind sufficient cover and with a proper spotter making the LRM platform immune to return fire.

Artemis increases several aspects of your missiles, but it's not something I have much experience with; I change my loadouts too much to really want to invest in Artemis because of the cost of adding/removing it.

As for ammo, two tons per launcher is typically seen as a minimum. My Stalker tends to run with two LRM15s and four tons of ammo; this is pretty low for a missile boat but my Stalker is more of a generalist and not a dedicated boat(dump 4 tons of LRMs, them mop up with 6 MLAS and 2 SRM6). A dedicated LRM platform is probably going to want more launchers, probably Artemis, and a lot more ammo.

[StarGeezer]

Artemis and Tag are helpful but not necessary, particularly if you have at least one guy with a Tag spotting for you.

Agree with the LRM20's...they're a huge waste, especially if you lose target lock after launching. On a couple of my boats, I tried a mixed loadout of a 5 and 15. The five was essentially a "test" salvo to make sure I had lock and to see if they had AMS. The 15 would then follow up after I was sure I was locked.

As a boat, you're not typically going to do a krapptonne of damage or get many kills. But if you rotate your targets, you'll get plenty of assists, savior kills, and component damage to really rack up a decent score. Your role is primarily support and suppression.

[TripleEhBeef]

You should also consider the number of missile tubes your mech has. Smurfy can help with this. If you're planning to use large launchers like LRM15s, you don't want them firing out of a hardpoint with 5 missile tubes. You'll fire in sets of 5, and most will be intercepted by AMS.

[chevy42083]

Is there a distance max for the tag? Will it create a lock on an ecm mech?
I expected to tag a mech with no markings on it, and have it appear with the box/triangle over it.
But it didn't....
is this because it was out of range,
had ecm,
may aim is horrible, or
the LRMs would've tracked to that point (if within range) and that is how it's supposed to work?

Edited by chevy42083, 21 September 2013 - 06:09 AM.

[mailin]

StarGeezer, on 21 September 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

Artemis and Tag are helpful but not necessary, particularly if you have at least one guy with a Tag spotting for you.


As a boat, you're not typically going to do a krapptonne of damage or get many kills. But if you rotate your targets, you'll get plenty of assists, savior kills, and component damage to really rack up a decent score. Your role is primarily support and suppression.

I agree that artemis may not be necessary, but it is useful. The downside is that every missile pack takes an extra crtical space and ton if artemis is used. Tag is essential . . . period. Tag is one of the few things that cuts through ECM, and it makes it more likely that your missiles will hit and that they hit the center torso. It also gives you faster lock time. TAG requires line of sight and requires you hold it on your target. The maximum range is 750m. You cannot rely on your friendlies, even if you are in a 4-man on comms. The battlefield is chaotic, TAG only weighs one ton and add no heat. DO NOT ROTATE YOUR TARGETS!!!! I strongly disagree here and I cannot stress this enough. If an enemy is locked and your lrms are hitting, which you can tell by watching the targeting reticle. (It will change to red every time a volley hits.) Keep up the pressure on that target until he's dead. There are only two good reasons to switch targets. The first is, if an enemy is coming toward you, get those lrms on him, but remember that the minimum range of lrms is 180m. Any less and they do nothing, so never, ever fire lrms when the enemy is 180m or less. Always make sure your lrm boat has some kind of backup weapon. I like medium pulse lasers, but streaks or srms can also work. The other reason to switch targets is if your original target goes somewhere that your lrms aren't hitting. He may have gone out of range (remember the max range is 1000m), your friendly may have lost lock, he may have powered down, or he may have moved behind a structure to avoid your lrms. I generally try to hold off switching targets until my lrms should have hit because if I can regain the lock while the lrms are in mid-air, they will resume tracking toward the target. This brings up something I see A LOT in pug matches. A pug will fire a salvo once they have lock and immediately switch targets. When they do this, those initial missiles will fly to wherever the enemy was last and generally will only hit if the enemy is standing still. Also, remember you can dumb fire your lrms. They will try to hit wherever your reticle is pointing. Last thing, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS have a BAP. A BAP increases your sensor range and speeds up lock time. It also cancels ECM when an enemy ECM is within 150m of you allowing you to maintain your lrm locks or target the ECM mech that is annoying you and hopefully your friendlies will see and come to your aid. Good luck and have fun.

[SchwarzerPeter]

I put a LRM20 + Artemis in my AS7-D-DC for testing and it works pretty well. You only got a 10-tube launcher so the LRMs spread in 2x10 which is ok. A LRM15 split's in 10-5 where much less is coming through.

But i wouldn't boat them in a Atlas, you are screwed otherwise in close range. Its a nice addition because you are always the last, so some indirect fire capabilities pretty useful while you engage.

[Redshift2k5]

chevy42083, on 21 September 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Is there a distance max for the tag? Will it create a lock on an ecm mech?
I expected to tag a mech with no markings on it, and have it appear with the box/triangle over it.
But it didn't....
is this because it was out of range,
had ecm,
may aim is horrible, or
the LRMs would've tracked to that point (if within range) and that is how it's supposed to work?

TAG's range is 750 meters. TAG will pierce ECM, but not if they are more than 750 M away.

[Koniving]

scJazz, on 21 September 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

3 ) Never use LRM20s... ever. I mean it!

Actually according to Smurfy, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale there's a reason to use them now. LRM-10s, LRM-15s, and LRM-20s are now all set to a limit of 2 launchers. So, firing 2 at once..

30 trumps 20.
40 trumps 30.

At least in a match of numbers. LRM-20s in a pair would be more effective against an Atlas or Stalker than a medium mech (due to spread).

But. I would NOT use them without having a dedicated spotter or two that can make sure every shot counts.

Edited by Koniving, 21 September 2013 - 07:30 AM.

[Koniving]

SchwarzerPeter, on 21 September 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

I put a LRM20 + Artemis in my AS7-D-DC for testing and it works pretty well. You only got a 10-tube launcher so the LRMs spread in 2x10 which is ok. A LRM15 split's in 10-5 where much less is coming through.

But i wouldn't boat them in a Atlas, you are screwed otherwise in close range. Its a nice addition because you are always the last, so some indirect fire capabilities pretty useful while you engage.

Once I get a DD-C (Got 2 D's, a K and an RS), one of my plans is an LRM-20 + twin SRMs. Or since its anti-light capabilities or limited maybe twin streaks so my arm weapons and cannons can focus on anti-heavy/assault duties.

I've found an LRM-20 and several LRM-10s (current design -- stream them in a chain for much more accurate fire) are very effective on the Highlander 733, packed with a tag to assist in targeting (nothing wasted on Artemis), a single AC/2 and medium laser. It performs quite well.
This is the most recent video (uses some 5s to get around penalties), not the best but the most recent. Sadly what could have been a glorious turnaround to the battle or final stand was cut off by a crash.


(Note: The information being talked about is old, as the footage is a collection of older footage that was going to be scraped due to one thing or another ruining it. Usually random crashes and disconnects).

Edited by Koniving, 21 September 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[Lightfoot]

When Artemis was released and tweaked, I think it was Paul, said Artemis caused the LRMs/missiles to form a tighter cluster, thus more of them will hit.

Add TAG and this increases the Artemis effect on the Cluster.

Add BAP and this tightens the cluster further.

Narc beacon may do the same thing, but was not mentioned.

For Artemis to work you must have Line of Sight to the target.

LRMs alone won't defeat enemy mechs effectively as a point defense. You need a few direct fire weapons like lasers or some like an LBX10 for when you are challenged.

LRM minimum range is 180 meters, they do nothing until they arm at 180 meters. Max range is 1000 meters, TAG max range is 750 meters.

BAP increases sensor range, cuts into the effective range of ECM. Targets painted with TAG are not shielded from missile locks by ECM. PPCs disrupt ECM for 4 seconds.

[mailin]

Currently NARC is terrible. Only new players who don't know better use it . . . so don't be that guy.

[Alaskan Nobody]

SchwarzerPeter, on 21 September 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

I put a LRM20 + Artemis in my AS7-D-DC for testing and it works pretty well. You only got a 10-tube launcher so the LRMs spread in 2x10 which is ok. A LRM15 split's in 10-5 where much less is coming through.

I am considering swapping that 20 for 2 10s - more heat, but the option to have 1 wave of 20 or 2 waves of 10...

4 heat each for the 10s
6 heat for the 20 right?

Or maybe do 3 5s like on my CN9-A... mostly use them for suppression anyways

[Koniving]

NARC's greatest issue is that it suffers from bad hit detection. If you're moving high speed and the target is, chances are you won't score a hit. If you want a successful, guaranteed hit, you have to take a pretty strong risk. For me, that's been jump jetting to a roof near a target (preferably undetected), and fire while standing still. Hits every time, and the results are glorious.

Try to hit something nearly stationary while moving, and chances are one out of four shots will connect and broadcast.

...Which is then immediately destroyed by an enemy or ally ECM. (The ally ECM part needs testing, as this bug may have been fixed).

Note: You can tag an ECM user with a NARC. But it seems much harder to nearly impossible to score a hit on an active ECM. If the ECM is in counter, or disabled due to PPC, NARC seems to have a much easier time attaching and doesn't break when the ECM is restored. Sadly the ECM and NARC conflict on lock-on times, causing some complications like "stuck lock" (but you can fire and home in regardless).

NARC is only useful in a dedicated lance. There's too much randomness to use it for pugging. But if you do get a friend willing to scout and throw down NARCs or someone who can missile boat pretty well and want to try it, by all means. Just remember to slow down to half speed at least before firing. They are too precious to risk wasting.

[Kitane]

BAP + TAG + Artemis whenever possible.

The speed is pretty important as well, if you are in a smaller chassis than an assault mech. You will be unable to bring as many missiles as assaults, so you will have to play smart and fire shots that have higher chance of hitting. And to get these opportunities you will have to move quickly from spot to spot.

Go for larger and slower targets first. Generally avoid shooting at light mechs unless there is no other target. If you see a light mech standing still or moving slowly, feel free to fire, their invicibility shield works only when they are moving.

Watch the map and think about the position of the target - best targets are in the open space where they have nowhere to run.

Try to find positions where you can rain your missiles on a target in your line-of-sight, don't rely too much on indirect mode. Artemis + Tag increase your missile CT-seeking accuracy almost 4 times.

Also try to position yourself in a way where you are not directly exposed to enemy skirmishers and flankers. Watch carefully for any attempts and reposition if you feel a unwelcome guest is heading your way. If you are attacked, you might try to shake them down among your friendlies first before trying to take the attacker down by yourself. Your time is better spend lobbying missiles at enemy assaults/heavies than firing your secondary weapons at skirmishing lights.

[Rina Fujimoto]

TAG+ARTEMIS is mandatory, do not listen to anyone who says otherwise, they have no clue what they are talking about and are one of "those" people who try to use LRM's a Hunchback 4SP or something and end up doing 90 damage per match. TAG+Artemis GREATLY increases your damage by virtue of tightening the spread, without it you might as well just drop with no weapons and try to hump them to death through collision damage, you'd probably end up doing better that way than someone with no TAG or Artemis.

Keep in mind Artemis only works with line of sight, so don't fire at people from across the map that you can't even see, you need to have visual on your target for the effect to apply (and to use your TAG in the first place anyway)

Koniving, on 21 September 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Actually according to Smurfy, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale there's a reason to use them now. LRM-10s, LRM-15s, and LRM-20s are now all set to a limit of 2 launchers. So, firing 2 at once..

30 trumps 20.
40 trumps 30.

At least in a match of numbers. LRM-20s in a pair would be more effective against an Atlas or Stalker than a medium mech (due to spread).

But. I would NOT use them without having a dedicated spotter or two that can make sure every shot counts.

They're awful tonnage - heat - damage-wise, you are aware you can just circumvent ghost heat by chain firing groups right? Quad LRM 15 is still doable, just separate them into two groups and fire each per .5 seconds. One could argue that it's better to fire it in one group so they dont get into cover, but with the buffs to missile speed it's not really an issue unless, again, you're one of those people who fire at mechs +900m away across the map and expect to hit.

scJazz, on 21 September 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

4 ) If you try to Boat LRMs in an Atlas or Stalker some light mech is going to find you and tear you apart.

I hope you're not implying the Stalker is bad at being an LRM boat, it's kinda....one of it's intended purposes, on top of the fact that it can carry a good amount of back up weaponry to defend itself, unless you're one of those morons who takes all LRM 20's on it or something, you should never fully boat LRM's unless you're in some organized team I guess, at the minimum you'll always at least want to have 2 medium lasers for back up.