51 replies to this topic

[RockmachinE]

My title says it all. Every time I play defense I lose to an organized attack without fail. I've personally organized a few IS rushes today where the team consisted entirely of PUGs, we won every single time.

If 10-12 mechs can organize and rush at the same time they breach the defense. The new generators do nothing. Its more or less the same, there's just not enough time to kill the attack no matter what.

In my experience its no different then before. All day today was the same. Organized attacks win bar none. The only time I defend successfully or lose on attack is if the offense messes around at the gate or gets caught up with the defense.

If attackers ignore defenders and just go for objectives they win every single time.

[Deathlike]

All I can say is "Learn to Focus Fire".

These are things veterans have been telling the newbies forever and if they never follow that simple principle... they will never really progress.

Of course, if people want to keep "doing their own thing", well, expect more losses.

[Odins Fist]

WAIT A MINUTE...!!!

You mean you thought that 3 little generators to kill and dropping the health on the main objective's generator was going to make a difference..??

Odins Fist, on 19 December 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

The NEW generators literally changed NOTHING in terms of fighting and how the base is attacked.

The same old formula works 100% as well as it did before.

Carry on.

Now this was only day one of the change, you never know what PGI will do with it in the future.

Edited by Odins Fist, 19 December 2014 - 01:12 PM.

[Xyroc]

I see the defending team fail every time when some idiot says " we have to go out and face them " ....

Keep you ass in the base close to & defending the primary objective as soon as those gates open up. Especially if you are a brawler.

Edited by Xyroc, 19 December 2014 - 01:12 PM.

[Sadist Cain]

We managed to hold butler from Ghost Bear.

Sat a lance on each generator and then collapsed onto whatever gate had the big push turn up.

Seems to work well, 3 lances, 3 generators and enough time to support your comrades if need be.

[Fox Kell]

How many waves does it take, if its more than, the changes are successfull.

And I havent seen anyone do it in 1 wave yet...so...

[Rebas Kradd]

Deathlike, on 19 December 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

All I can say is "Learn to Focus Fire".

Won't be enough when there are twelve enemy heavies ignoring everything but the generator. The armor gives them too much protection.

[oldradagast]

Hmmm... I can't say I agree with that.

I've won every single defending game in CW with one exception, and that was on a splintered "team" consisting of PUG's, maybe a few 2 to 3 mans, etc. against a coordinated 12-man. That "team" also seemed allergic to any use of communications at all, which basically is an auto-loss no matter how many good mechs or players you may have.

On the flip side, under equally uncoordinated circumstances on defense, I've been there to beat coordinated enemy teams.

While I can agree with the statement that the rush is repetitive and not really much fun, nor really in the spirit of the greater tactical and strategic game we hoped to have in CW, I cannot support the notion that it can't be beaten.

After playing on the attacking side recently in a few games - admittedly, also ones as part of very small groups on mostly uncoordinated teams - I'm surprised the attackers ever win given how the odds are stacked.

Edited by oldradagast, 19 December 2014 - 01:23 PM.

[Darth Futuza]

Couple of suggestions:

-Stay inside, don't go out of your gates (unless your a scout).
-Carry long range weapons
-Stay close to your objective (defending the cannon), if you get too far away from it you can't stop a rush
-Focus on legging targets, killing them should not be a priority. Slowing/stopping them down is.
-Bring mediums - they are best at taking out speedy light rushes.
-Use arty strikes with wisdom.
-Use your dropships to rain down fire upon the enemy. Suiciding can summon a dropship when the need is desperate enough.

Edited by Darth Futuza, 19 December 2014 - 01:23 PM.

[Deathlike]

Rebas Kradd, on 19 December 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

Won't be enough when there are twelve enemy heavies ignoring everything but the generator. The armor gives them too much protection.

Legging is not Lostech... except for wounded prides.

[AlphaToaster]

If anyone expected PGI to stop rushing from working with these latest changes, I feel bad for them, but only a little bit.

The 3 generators actually make it easier for the attackers to win. All it did was add more time to brawl so instead of a 3min blow out, it's 5min and give the defenders 4 objectives to watch instead of 1. I hope that is enough combat on a stomp to appease those who cannot figure out the defense.

Got to love that high TTK we have now because of all the crying for weapon nerfs. Oh such irony.

Defenders cannot just sit on one gate. Defenders must coordinate people watching all the gates all the time. Defenders must scout. Defenders have to be in the proper mechs for their role in defense. PGI's patch didn't remove any of these requirements for a successful defense with this patch.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 19 December 2014 - 01:31 PM.

[RockmachinE]

I don't need advice in this thread. I'm pointing out an imbalance in the maps and game modes.

Don't assume I'm a noob because of my post count. I've been around from the start.

"Learn to xxxx" is the most hilarious thing I hear on these forums. Its not about learning to do anything. If you have randoms in a group without comms you cant focus fire on anything. It won't happen. You can't organize a 12 PUG defense. It works on offense, and then its a sure win. And this is my point.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 19 December 2014 - 01:34 PM.

[Odins Fist]

Louis Brofist, on 19 December 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

[b]I don't need advice in this thread. I'm pointing out....

You sure about that..??

[AlphaToaster]

Louis Brofist, on 19 December 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

I don't need advice in this thread. I'm pointing out an imbalance in the maps and game modes.

Don't assume I'm a noob because of my post count. I've been around from the start.

"Learn to xxxx" is the most hilarious thing I hear on these forums. Its not about learning to do anything. If you have randoms in a group without comms you cant focus fire on anything. It won't happen. You can't organize a 12 PUG defense. It works on offense, and then its a sure win. And this is my point.

So you're not interested in learning from people who don't have this problem? K.

[pwnface]

Louis Brofist, on 19 December 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

I don't need advice in this thread. I'm pointing out an imbalance in the maps and game modes.

Don't assume I'm a noob because of my post count. I've been around from the start.

"Learn to xxxx" is the most hilarious thing I hear on these forums. Its not about learning to do anything. If you have randoms in a group without comms you cant focus fire on anything. It won't happen. You can't organize a 12 PUG defense. It works on offense, and then its a sure win. And this is my point.

Actually, were assuming you are a noob because of your hilarious thread. It seems like you DO need advice because other groups ARE successfully defending against all kinds of tactics. The problem isn't an imbalance in game mode or maps, it is a lack of communication between pug players.

[RockmachinE]

Yes.

I understand if you drop with groups you can "focus fire" and "leg the enemies" try that with pugs, it doesn't work. I've been at it for a week now. I drop solo. I've yet to defend successfully against an organized attack. One single time.

And yet, with pugs, I keep winning matches so long as I can get people on board to attack the same objective at the same time. Why is this so? After a week the pattern is obvious.

And keep your smartass egos in check this is not about "veterans" and noobs its about game balance.

[DEMAX51]

Louis Brofist, on 19 December 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

Yes.

I understand if you drop with groups you can "focus fire" and "leg the enemies" try that with pugs, it doesn't work. I've been at it for a week now. I drop solo. I've yet to defend successfully against an organized attack. One single time.

And yet, with pugs, I keep winning matches so long as I can get people on board to attack the same objective at the same time. Why is this so? After a week the pattern is obvious.

And keep your smartass egos in check this is not about "veterans" and noobs its about game balance.

The pattern is, indeed, obvious. When your team acts like a team, you win, when they don't you lose. Teamwork is OP. You want more coordination, more regularly, on your team? Find a group to play with.

[Deathlike]

Louis Brofist, on 19 December 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

I don't need advice in this thread. I'm pointing out an imbalance in the maps and game modes.

Don't assume I'm a noob because of my post count. I've been around from the start.

"Learn to xxxx" is the most hilarious thing I hear on these forums. Its not about learning to do anything. If you have randoms in a group without comms you cant focus fire on anything. It won't happen. You can't organize a 12 PUG defense. It works on offense, and then its a sure win. And this is my point.

"Learn to xxxx" is exactly the issue most PUGs don't learn.

Even back when we had "CapWarrior Online" exclaimations, people didn't "learn to scout" to find out whether the enemy went the other way, before being capped out.

Even in the group queue, there are teams that are still bad at "learning to push" when a push is warranted. They are generally well versed in camping (and generally plan on the enemy to come to them) and not capable of pushing when the opportunity presents itself.

"Learn to play" is not just a saying... it's isn't practiced by the people that complain about the game.

Sure, it could be possible that the game modes have problems... but ultimately if you're not practicing on trying to get better in the game, there is ultimately no hope in success.

[RockmachinE]

On offense you can since time is not an object. Simply tell people to re-group at a coordinate, wait for everyone to come, rush in. Rinse repeat, win.

On defense you can't do that. There's no time once the offense starts steamrolling in. They take damage, you can kill 9 out of 12 and the 3 will still take the objectives, so long as they touch the freaking generators they go down.

DEMAX51, on 19 December 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Find a group to play with.

Again this is not about group work its about a fundamental flaw in game design.

[Deathlike]

Louis Brofist, on 19 December 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

On defense you can't do that. There's no time once the offense starts steamrolling in. They take damage, you can kill 9 out of 12 and the 3 will still take the objectives, so long as they touch the freaking generators they go down.

Actually, you can.

There are certain points in the map critical for the defense to be positioned at. If you give them an idea of where to set up, they will head there and do what they can. The thing is, you have to recognize what is happening on the battlefield... ideally, using the command map and with some people actually scouting and reporting back.

Of course... if people don't learn to do this or take the initiative... well, you know exactly what those results are.

It's not as hard as you are making it... you have to actually "learn to play the map" just as well, not just "learn to communicate".

Edited by Deathlike, 19 December 2014 - 01:54 PM.