146 replies to this topic

[BduSlammer]

Ive been away for awhile are there any plans for the Warhammer , Marauder , Archer, Crusader mechs coming into the game

[MeiSooHaityu]

No unfortunately due to a copyright infringement lawsuit with Harmony Gold. Those mechs were closely modeled off of Anime mechs from cartoons Harmony Gold holds the licensing rights too.

There are others on the forum that could follow up with some details.

As for a reworked mech model for MWO. From what i understand....I guess there was some talk of completely reworking the appearance of the Marauder, but A: Harmony Gold has to sign off on it and B: PGI feels people may not like how different it would look and not accept the new look.

[BduSlammer]

so they still fighting over a 30 year old pick of a mech

[MeiSooHaityu]

Yup

[Metus regem]

I don't think Harmony Gold has to sign off on anything, just look at the phoenix project units... But I think the MAD-4X would make a good base to work from for a Marauder. As for the Warhammer she is going to be a bit harder, as the post phoenix versions just look bad....

[El Bandito]

No Crusader is a bummer, but I think we will get the Grand Crusader just fine... ...after 3 years.

http://www.sarna.net.../Grand_Crusader

Edited by El Bandito, 30 December 2014 - 07:39 AM.

[Count Zero 74]

For the boardgame they came up with the so-called Project Phoenix Mechs.
They where re-designs off all the mechs from the 3025 readout which they couldn't use anymore.
Here's how the Marauder and Warhammer look like:



[img=http://s17.postimg.org/a6vhsgt8b/Warhammer.jpg]

[mogs01gt]

Count Zero 74, on 30 December 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

For the boardgame they came up with the so-called Project Phoenix Mechs.
They where re-designs off all the mechs from the 3025 readout which they couldn't use anymore.
Here's how the Marauder and Warhammer look like:



[img=http://s17.postimg.org/a6vhsgt8b/Warhammer.jpg]

That looks like ****

[Otto Cannon]

Metus regem, on 30 December 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

I don't think Harmony Gold has to sign off on anything, just look at the phoenix project units...

The Phoenix mechs were used because they're the ones that HG doesn't have the rights to. Marauder, Crusader, Warhammer, etc. were all Macross designs and HG will jump all over anything remotely similar.

[Count Zero 74]

A few more pics of some Warhammer and Marauder Project Phoenix variants:

[img=http://s16.postimg.org/tahtvbpch/image.jpg]

[img=http://s21.postimg.org/836vdvvzn/image.jpg]

[img=http://s23.postimg.org/gs4697cw7/image.jpg]

[img=http://s24.postimg.org/90t21xxs1/image.jpg]

[BduSlammer]

could they use the madcat and no missile boxes for the marauder , an hellbriger for the warhammer and just use IS eq

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 30 December 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

I don't think Harmony Gold has to sign off on anything, just look at the phoenix project units... But I think the MAD-4X would make a good base to work from for a Marauder. As for the Warhammer she is going to be a bit harder, as the post phoenix versions just look bad....

phoenix project units never were under harmony golds umbrella. The HG Unseen issue is not that they couldn't do them, it's the very real risk that that useless holding company that exists to give hack lawyers a job, would sue, baseless or not. Topps, who owns the BTech rights, can absorb such a blow, and as such, will print, within reason, what they want. If PGI was to put one in this game, they would not have Topps protection (as Microsoft owns the rights, and is disinclined to spend money on the IP) and could be ruined pretty much overnight.

Until and unless they can actually get HG to sign off, the risk simply outweighs the rewards.

[Rhaythe]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 December 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

Until and unless they can actually get HG to sign off, the risk simply outweighs the rewards.

I'm pretty sure I read at some point that PGI did approach HG with this very intention, but that HG just gave them an arbitrary "hell no" every time, so they gave up the effort. Maybe. Memory's fuzzy on this one.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rhaythe, on 30 December 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure I read at some point that PGI did approach HG with this very intention, but that HG just gave them an arbitrary "hell no" every time, so they gave up the effort. Maybe. Memory's fuzzy on this one.

Mostly this, though Russ has lately given some cryptic "wait and see" responses on the matter, along with "worth revisiting".

Maybe he took Tommy Yune out for a night on the town and got some good blackmail photos?

[LordMelvin]

The key is to make the mechs look different enough that HG won't trip over themselves punching the lawsuit button. The copyright isn't on the names, it's on the appearance. Unfortunately the appearance itself is iconic enough that remaking it would be a challenge, not to mention the looming threat of orbital litigation from HG.

So in essence...

Harmony Gold said:

Do you think you're lucky punk?

[Rhaythe]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 December 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Maybe he took Tommy Yune out for a night on the town and got some good blackmail photos?

Gold Masakari collections for everyone at HG?

LordMelvin, on 30 December 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

The key is to make the mechs look different enough that HG won't trip over themselves punching the lawsuit button.

Change'em too much, you get nerd rage. Not enough, you get lawsuited. Harsh balance.

[KuroNyra]

Metus regem, on 30 December 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

I don't think Harmony Gold has to sign off on anything, just look at the phoenix project units... But I think the MAD-4X would make a good base to work from for a Marauder. As for the Warhammer she is going to be a bit harder, as the post phoenix versions just look bad....

The others phoenix weren't owned by Harmony Gold, but by others company I believe.


Heck, personatly, I don't care if they are different from the originals ones.

They have still material to make Marauder and Warhammer epic looking mech without being copy of the old ones.

Edited by KuroNyra, 30 December 2014 - 08:10 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

LordMelvin, on 30 December 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

The key is to make the mechs look different enough that HG won't trip over themselves punching the lawsuit button. The copyright isn't on the names, it's on the appearance. Unfortunately the appearance itself is iconic enough that remaking it would be a challenge, not to mention the looming threat of orbital litigation from HG.

So in essence...

The trick, is more than that. Harmony Gold doesn't really care what they look like. Even the names will get them the possibility of a frivolous lawsuit.... the point being, even a totally baseless one, PGI can't afford to fight, even if they would eventually win, if they go bankrupt first, it serves no purpose (aside from making Vass and Roland and the a few butthurts happy)

[Apnu]

MeiSooHaityu, on 30 December 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

No unfortunately due to a copyright infringement lawsuit with Harmony Gold. Those mechs were closely modeled off of Anime mechs from cartoons Harmony Gold holds the licensing rights too.

There are others on the forum that could follow up with some details.

As for a reworked mech model for MWO. From what i understand....I guess there was some talk of completely reworking the appearance of the Marauder, but A: Harmony Gold has to sign off on it and B: PGI feels people may not like how different it would look and not accept the new look.

No, HG does not have to sign off on it. All that's sorted out with Project Phoenix from WizKids/FanPro. Simply put, the designs have to be significantly different from the Macross designs such that HG can't, reasonably, challenge them in court. Russ and Bryan got into hot water in 2009 with the MWO teaser trailer, meant to be an investment hook, because they used a full on, un-modified Warhammer. (I thought the WHM looked great, but the AS7 was off) HG is always watching because within days they'd issued a bewildering amount of takedown notices and PGI clammed up fast. No need to "give them a pass" unless PGI is feeling both secure in their designs and professionally polite. Given HG's antics, they can go jump off a cliff for all I care.

Anyway, PGI can proceed with the Warhammer, Marauder, Phoenix Hawk when ever they like... If they use the Project Phoenix designs. They did already with MWO's Phoenix mechs, the Thunderbolt is closer to the redesign than they old unseen version. They will be fine. Sadly, BT fans have emphatically rejected the reseen Warhammer, Rifleman, Phoenix Hawk, and most loudly, the Marauder. They're pretty ugly.

I got the impression from Russ, his first town hall in 2014, that he knows all this and is undecided what he wants to do. He probably knows he can pull it off, but he's weary of fan rejection of the Phoenix reseen mechs. We all desperately want them, I'm dying for an Archer personally, but we all desperately want them to look good and right. that's a pretty iffy minefield to walk. I don't blame Russ for trepidation there.

LordMelvin, on 30 December 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

The key is to make the mechs look different enough that HG won't trip over themselves punching the lawsuit button. The copyright isn't on the names, it's on the appearance. Unfortunately the appearance itself is iconic enough that remaking it would be a challenge, not to mention the looming threat of orbital litigation from HG.

So in essence...

That's been done already. However, do you want to see this:



as the Warhammer in MWO?

Bishop Steiner, on 30 December 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

The trick, is more than that. Harmony Gold doesn't really care what they look like. Even the names will get them the possibility of a frivolous lawsuit.... the point being, even a totally baseless one, PGI can't afford to fight, even if they would eventually win, if they go bankrupt first, it serves no purpose (aside from making Vass and Roland and the a few butthurts happy)

No not the names. HG has no copyright claim on "Warhammer", for example. They have no claim on a robot with two PPCs, two medium lasers, two small lasers, two machine guns and one SRM6. They only have a claim on the visual representation of the Destroid known as the Tomahawk.

[CDLord HHGD]

Harmony Gold said:

LOL NO