24 replies to this topic

[Riffleman]

Upped engine to 340, so 4/6 movement or 65kph I believe.
2x LRM-15
4x Medium lasers
4x SSRM-2
6 double heat sinks
Max armor of 263 (atlas as an example is 304)

Battle value is reading at 1,514 which is pretty respectable.

Anyone know what tech is available at 3049, was thinking endo steel or ferro armor might cut the weight more so I can upgrade to LRM 15's but pretty happy as is if not. Endo steel and LRM-15s would boost it to 1,598BV

Edited to show that endo steel at least is available, saving 4 tons allowing for the lrm 15s

Edited by Riffleman, 09 July 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[Tybryn]

It is a nice fit, a beast at close range which is where I believe most of our fighting will take place.

Endo-steel and ferro-fibrous armor were both available in canon, however streak SRMs I believe were not as they only came with the clans.

[Squigles]

I'll start by saying, that for an assault, the mech is fairly uninspiring. An atlas, which doesn't pack a particularly heavy punch for it's weight, instead being an armor boat, would trounce this thing up one end of the field and down the other with it's stock load out.

It matches your LRM firepower, it clocks in at 75% of your maximum SRM output, and has an AC/20 to club you over the head while besting you in armor as well. With the large number of hardpoints this will have to have available just to fit the stock load out, much better can be produced, this build also assumes we'll have extra missile hardpoints over stock.

Also trying to figure out how you produced this build to begin, taking a Stalker and putting in your load out and only giving 1 ton of ammo to the SSRM 2's and the base 2T of ammo to the LRM's I'm clocking in at 88T. That's with a 4/6 engine, 16 DBL heatsinks (I assume you meant 16 since you can't have 6), max armor, 4ML's, 4 SSRM2's, 2 LRM 10's, and a total of 3T of ammo. Maybe a better break down of loaded assets?

Edited by Squigles, 09 July 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[Sierra19]

Well, according to the Sword and Dragon starterbook from BT, double heatsinks are available on an experimental basis, as they were recovered in 3040. There is potentially a lot of lost tech available in 3049. How much makes it in game is another matter. Some tech was recovered and available only to certain houses too, so that would be interesting if certain tech was available only to certain houses.

[Gallard]

I thought IS did have streaks, but only on 2-packs.

[Damascas]

SSRM2 are available

[PeptoB]

Hrm...I thought this thread might have been about S.T.A.L.K.E.R CoP... or pehaps news on the now defunk STALKER 2,,LoL...

Pepto

[Riffleman]

Squigles, on 09 July 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

I'll start by saying, that for an assault, the mech is fairly uninspiring. An atlas, which doesn't pack a particularly heavy punch for it's weight, instead being an armor boat, would trounce this thing up one end of the field and down the other with it's stock load out.

It matches your LRM firepower, it clocks in at 75% of your maximum SRM output, and has an AC/20 to club you over the head while besting you in armor as well. With the large number of hardpoints this will have to have available just to fit the stock load out, much better can be produced, this build also assumes we'll have extra missile hardpoints over stock.

Also trying to figure out how you produced this build to begin, taking a Stalker and putting in your load out and only giving 1 ton of ammo to the SSRM 2's and the base 2T of ammo to the LRM's I'm clocking in at 88T. That's with a 4/6 engine, 16 DBL heatsinks (I assume you meant 16 since you can't have 6), max armor, 4ML's, 4 SSRM2's, 2 LRM 10's, and a total of 3T of ammo. Maybe a better break down of loaded assets?

This build is assuming double heat sinks and endo steel internal, which was available at 3049 according to the builder im using

http://remlab.source...mlab30/mech.lab

Give it a try, it all plugs in. Also one ton of ammo for the SSRM 2 is not an issue since they arent firing unless they hit, so there super effecient when it comes to ammo. This will also have speed over an atlas, enough to keep up with stock hunchbacks and centurions, even if it dosent manuver as well. The missles should fit as well.

Also I thought the firepower on this was fairly respectable, even in close quarters.

[shadowhawk102]

how much ammo?
did you use a xl engine?
with 6 heat sinks and that weapon load i could only get 1 tonne of ammo of each type
so 6 vollys of lrm, and 12 vollys of srm 2

assumming you used double heatsinks, you only need 15 total, so adding 5, will give you 3 tonnes of ammo space.
still, nice at short range, but a little lacking at long range.

used solaris skunk werks to build it, did not have endo or ferro on it as that would not be tournament leagal if before 3050

Edited by shadowhawk102, 09 July 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[Riffleman]

The standard stalker comes in at less than full armor (216 compared to 263 on my variant), speed that tied with an atlas, and has:

2x LRM-10
2x Large laser
4x Medium lasers
2x SRM-6
4 more single heat sinks.

That, to me at least, is underwhelming for an assault. Dosent really excel at range OR brawling. Mine at least has brawling with the armor to take a beating, and damage in close. So if you think my version is underwhelming stay away from the stock version of this one heh

Edited by Riffleman, 09 July 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[Riffleman]

shadowhawk102, on 09 July 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

how much ammo?
did you use a xl engine?
with 6 heat sinks and that weapon load i could only get 1 tonne of ammo of each type
so 6 vollys of lrm, and 12 vollys of srm 2

1 ton for the LRM each, its standard engine to avoid crit kabooms, 16 total double heat sinks, and one ton for the ssrm standard. Its still at 32 heat disapated to 30 heat created by firing everything, so if I want I could drop 2 or 4 heat sinks for ammo. In game testing will tell me if its gonna be necessary (since they are doubling armor and havent mentioned doubling ammo this could very well be)

[Squigles]

Riffleman, on 09 July 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

The standard stalker comes in at less than full armor (216 compared to 263 on my variant), speed that tied with an atlas, and has:

2x LRM-10
2x Large laser
4x Medium lasers
2x SRM-6
4 more single heat sinks.

That, to me at least, is underwhelming for an assault. Dosent really accell at range OR brawling. Mine at least has brawling with the armor to take a beating, and damage in close. So if you think my version is underwhelming stay away from the stock version of this one heh

It actually has more brawling firepower then your build, and more long range firepower, it's one of the mechs in battletech that is literally the least in need of modifying. It has nearly double your builds long range firepower, and around 20% more close range firepower, and the heatsinks to manage the heat from either range bracket of weapons, the 20 singles will cool the mech when firing the medium lasers and the SRM racks. It will also cool it when firing the large lasers and the LRM's, just not both sets. One of the best modifications for this mech is just to simply give it DBL sinks and reduce the total sinks and use that weight for the armor.

Edit 2: Just as a better break down, your version features an absolute maximum of 20 points of long range damage in a salvo, the base chassis can push 36. Close range the max you can push in a salvo is 36, the base model can put out 44.
Modifying the base build for max armor and dbl sinks means you can even add 1 of the large lasers to your close range salvo without overheating allowing you to push 52 damage at close range without worrying about heat. The only thing your build has going is the 4/6 vs 3/5 speed, but since the base variant with a DBL mod can trounce it at every range it chooses to engage at....

Edit 1:Also, available tech, sorry it took so long, couldn't remember where it was.

http://mwomercs.com/...-devs-1-answer/

Edited by Squigles, 09 July 2012 - 06:44 PM.

[Riffleman]

Squigles, on 09 July 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

It actually has more brawling firepower then your build, and more long range firepower, it's one of the mechs in battletech that is literally the least in need of modifying. It has nearly double your builds long range firepower, and around 20% more close range firepower, and the heatsinks to manage the heat from either range bracket of weapons, the 20 singles will cool the mech when firing the medium lasers and the SRM racks. It will also cool it when firing the large lasers and the LRM's, just not both sets. One of the best modifications for this mech is just to simply give it DBL sinks and reduce the total sinks and use that weight for the armor.

Also, available tech, sorry it took so long, couldn't remember where it was.

http://mwomercs.com/...-devs-1-answer/

I just entered the standard stalker, and its coming up at 1,347 battle value.

And the srm 6s do not equal more damage than 4 ssrm 2s. Half the time there going to do less, 25 precent of the time the same amount of damage, and 25 precent of the time more. Although with 4 less heat sinks and changing to endo steel, that gives it 4 more tons for weapons, less movement though. It too could upgrade its lrm to lrm 15s.

Also thanks for the link to the gear.

Edited by Riffleman, 09 July 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[Squigles]

Riffleman, on 09 July 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I just entered the standard stalker, and its coming up at 1,347 battle value.

And the srm 6s do not equal more damage than 4 ssrm 2s. Half the time there going to do less, 25 precent of the time the same amount of damage, and 25 precent of the time more. Although with 4 less heat sinks and changing to endo steel, that gives it 4 more tons for weapons, less movement though. It too could upgrade its lrm to lrm 15s.

Also thanks for the link to the gear.

It's debatable on the damage output of the SRM's, I'd say if you were a pretty dead eye pilot, expect to see almost all of the SRM's hitting. When shown in video's they tend to hold to a very tight shotgun blast pattern, I can't actually recall seeing a single missile of a single standard SRM salvo ever miss in any of the available video's, it's no longer the gatling gun style firing of the earlier games, it just disgorges the entire lot of them in 1 click.

[Riffleman]

Squigles, on 09 July 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

It's debatable on the damage output of the SRM's, I'd say if you were a pretty dead eye pilot, expect to see almost all of the SRM's hitting. When shown in video's they tend to hold to a very tight shotgun blast pattern, I can't actually recall seeing a single missile of a single standard SRM salvo ever miss in any of the available video's, it's no longer the gatling gun style firing of the earlier games, it just disgorges the entire lot of them in 1 click.

It will probably only be clear which is superior when actual playtesting can go on. And if you drop the sinks on the original to 16, double then, and make the internals endo steel, you can reach the same speed as my variant, but still need additional tonnage for the armor missing (3 tons less armor, not huge but its something) But your right, its pretty decent as a stock mech, just never been a fan of large lasers effeciency wise.

I dont think there going to get rid of the random aspect of the srm missles hits, otherwise you could boat up say 5 or 6 srm 6s and annihilate anything pretty dang quick. Godo recycle time and low heat, you would have to snipe that mech before it got to you or it would be all over.

Edited by Riffleman, 09 July 2012 - 07:00 PM.

[Squigles]

Riffleman, on 09 July 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

It will probably only be clear which is superior when actual playtesting can go on. And if you drop the sinks on the original to 16, double then, and make the internals endo steel, you can reach the same speed as my variant, but still need additional tonnage for the armor missing (3 tons less armor, not huge but its something) But your right, its pretty decent as a stock mech, just never been a fan of large lasers effeciency wise.

I dont think there going to get rid of the random aspect of the srm missles hits, otherwise you could boat up say 5 or 6 srm 6s and annihilate anything pretty dang quick. Godo recycle time and low heat, you would have to snipe that mech before it got to you or it would be all over.

The random nature of many weapons goes out the window in a mechwarrior game, only LRM's are really "random". And hardpoints dictate if you can boat, as of now, unless they intentionally give a mech the ability to boat missiles, the most missle hardpoints that are forced by a chasis of the announced mechs are 4 missile hardpoints, on the stalker no less =)

That being said, as to a slightly better build, if you just hate large lasers, check this out. Take the base Stalker, give it double heat sinks, downgrade to 15. Replace your large lasers with medium lasers. Keep the SRM 6's and the 2T of ammo. Upgrade your LRM racks to 1 LRM 15 and 1 LRM 20 (ammo isn't an issue, if you watch the mechlab you'll see there's only 1 category for LRM ammo, and SRM ammo has been homogonized too, hence the 100 rounds per ton on SRM 6's we see in video's), give it 4T of LRM ammo. Max the armor, and just for added survivability, go ahead and stick CASE in both side torso's to protect from ammo booms.

The provided heatsinks will cool the mech when using the 6 ML's and 2 SRM 6's, or the LRM racks, it will also allow you to target a mech in the background and lob 1 of the LRM racks at it while using your full close range firepower up close and personal. This build doesn't use Endo, the only advanced tech on it is DBL sinks. It beats out both the stock and your build at close range, beats your build at long range, gives the stock a run for it's money at range, and has better survivability then both with max armor and the case protected sides.

Edit: Should also note, it only assumes it will have 1:1 hardpoints on the mech, so you're guaranteed to be able to build it even if they only give it 1 hardpoint per weapons system on the stock mech.

Edited by Squigles, 09 July 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[Wolv e]

75 ton variant:


LA Pulse Laser (Large)
RA Pulse Laser (Large)
LT Pulse Laser (Medium)
RT LRM 15
LT Streak SRM 4
LT Streak SRM 4
CT CASE
RT CASE

Also has XL engine and endo steel with 17 double heatsinks, 2 tons of lrm 15 ammmo and 2 tons of ssrm4 ammo. Unfortunately they only had the 3050 rules in there and since we are starting in 3049, should not be too far off. Alpha strike produces 3 heat standing still.

Edited by Wolv e, 09 July 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[Squigles]

Wolv e, on 09 July 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

75 ton variant:


LA Pulse Laser (Large)
RA Pulse Laser (Large)
LT Pulse Laser (Medium)
RT LRM 15
LT Streak SRM 4
LT Streak SRM 4
CT CASE
RT CASE

Also has XL engine and endo steel with 17 double heatsinks, 2 tons of lrm 15 ammmo and 2 tons of ssrm4 ammo. Unfortunately they only had the 3050 rules in there and since we are starting in 3049, should not be too far off. Alpha strike produces 3 heat standing still.

No SSRM 4's in MWO, and I'd bet about a million C-bills we won't be seeing that abomination of a "variant" in game, there's a reason the sarna page still needs a citation for that mech =). There's no record sheet ever been printed for it, it's just a piece of lore about stalkers with faulty frames.

[Riffleman]

Squigles, on 09 July 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

The random nature of many weapons goes out the window in a mechwarrior game, only LRM's are really "random". And hardpoints dictate if you can boat, as of now, unless they intentionally give a mech the ability to boat missiles, the most missle hardpoints that are forced by a chasis of the announced mechs are 4 missile hardpoints, on the stalker no less =)

That being said, as to a slightly better build, if you just hate large lasers, check this out. Take the base Stalker, give it double heat sinks, downgrade to 15. Replace your large lasers with medium lasers. Keep the SRM 6's and the 2T of ammo. Upgrade your LRM racks to 1 LRM 15 and 1 LRM 20 (ammo isn't an issue, if you watch the mechlab you'll see there's only 1 category for LRM ammo, and SRM ammo has been homogonized too, hence the 100 rounds per ton on SRM 6's we see in video's), give it 4T of LRM ammo. Max the armor, and just for added survivability, go ahead and stick CASE in both side torso's to protect from ammo booms.

The provided heatsinks will cool the mech when using the 6 ML's and 2 SRM 6's, or the LRM racks, it will also allow you to target a mech in the background and lob 1 of the LRM racks at it while using your full close range firepower up close and personal. This build doesn't use Endo, the only advanced tech on it is DBL sinks. It beats out both the stock and your build at close range, beats your build at long range, gives the stock a run for it's money at range, and has better survivability then both with max armor and the case protected sides.

Edit: Should also note, it only assumes it will have 1:1 hardpoints on the mech, so you're guaranteed to be able to build it even if they only give it 1 hardpoint per weapons system on the stock mech.

Wasent aware they changed the ammo around. Do you have to buy it seperatley from the launchers now? This could be really detremental since there planning on doubling the armor already. And I like your builds, but I feel that the extra speed mine get are worth the tradeoff in potential firepower (to me anyway). But again untill I playtest it, I am not going to know how important higher speed is overall.

[Koshadows]

Squigles, on 09 July 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

I'll start by saying, that for an assault, the mech is fairly uninspiring. An atlas, which doesn't pack a particularly heavy punch for it's weight, instead being an armor boat, would trounce this thing up one end of the field and down the other with it's stock load out.

It matches your LRM firepower, it clocks in at 75% of your maximum SRM output, and has an AC/20 to club you over the head while besting you in armor as well. With the large number of hardpoints this will have to have available just to fit the stock load out, much better can be produced, this build also assumes we'll have extra missile hardpoints over stock.

Also trying to figure out how you produced this build to begin, taking a Stalker and putting in your load out and only giving 1 ton of ammo to the SSRM 2's and the base 2T of ammo to the LRM's I'm clocking in at 88T. That's with a 4/6 engine, 16 DBL heatsinks (I assume you meant 16 since you can't have 6), max armor, 4ML's, 4 SSRM2's, 2 LRM 10's, and a total of 3T of ammo. Maybe a better break down of loaded assets?

I'm not too certain how you came to the conclusion that the long range firepower of the atlas being better at stock configurations here. The base model of the atlas carries a single LRM-20 as its one and ONLY long range weapon. The man up there put up a pair of LRM-15s, how in the world is that worse than a single LRM-20 launcher? Unless its only got 1 ton of ammo the LRM-15s can rain much better support fire.

However, the build by the OP is odd considering you're sacrificing medium range engagement power for close range punch on a chassis that doesn't have as much armor as the atlas. You're relying on the fact that yes you travel at 64 kph, but you gotta take note the fact that the stalker looks just as fat, if not fatter than an atlas. Hitting a 64 kph brick is much easier than hitting a 64 kph hunchback i'd imagine

Edited by Koshadows, 09 July 2012 - 07:37 PM.