4 replies to this topic

[Hexsyn]

I've done my research and understand the general pros and cons of pulse vs normal lasers--heat, weight, precision, duration--so rest assured that this isn't another newbie question on THAT subject. I'm curious to know if any of you have particular maxims you follow when deciding whether you want your mech to go "wub" or "pew".

I suppose an obvious maxim, especially on the lighter, faster mechs, is that pulses are better for hit-and run, since the extra heat doesn't matter much if you already intend to only take a few shots before G-ing the F-O for a while.

What of "brawling" though? I can see the benefit of quick damage with pulse, allowing for torso twisting, but then again, I can see the benefit of normal lasers pumping out more damage over time with their reduced heat.

Does your decision change depending on the role of lasers on your mech? (main damage source vs. backup)

Does your decision change depending on how many lasers you want to load up?

I can see differences in long range poke. As a person example, I'll just compare pulse LLs on my RVN-4X and normal LLs on my RVN-3L. The 4X has gross laser duration and range quirks, but no ECM, so I went with pulse LL for reduced vulnerability to counter-attack--but I went with normal ER-LLs on my RVN-3L since I felt protected enough by my ECM that I wanted the ability to shoot more times in a row, allowed by the lower heat generation.

Ultimately I'm sure I will come to my own conclusions as time goes on and I have the CB to try every variation for myself, but in the meantime, I'm curious to hear thoughts on the subject.

[Phobic Wraith]

It sounds like you've put plenty of thought into it. As a player that's been around a while I remember the days where pilots outfitting their mechs with pulse lasers was the equivalent of a joke. No one used pulse lasers. Want a large pulse laser? Be a good player and use a PPC instead. Flying 3 PPC and gauss highlanders and 6 ppc stalkers, were in vogue when I was a newer player.

My thoughts are this: the balance between pulse lasers and their regular kin is right about where it should be. I tend to go regular simply for the fact that I like range sweet spot and they weigh less. however, I have run a 9 MPL Hunchback I affectionately call "the Murderback." I've also largely kept my Cheeselander (the one with 3 PPCs and a gauss) unchanged, but recently swapped out the PPCs for large pulse lasers. I never thought I'd see the day.

I think your logic is on the right track, but I would also consider the fact that you can run two medium lasers for 10 damage at the same cost as one MPL for 6 damage and less range. It all depends on the hardpoints and the skill.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

A couple of things to consider are weight:space ratio available (higher favors pulse lasers, lower favors non-pulse) and the weapons' intended range bracket.

If you're trying to squeeze more range out, then pulses are out. If it's not so much about that longer range, but low-duration and short exposure for max damage, then pulses are your better choice.

You'll notice, when you get a mech loaded out with the right engine and armor and primary weapon(s), that there's X tons and Y critical slots left for the E weapons to fill. If your weight:space available ratio is higher, pulses work better to fill those spots in. Otherwise, you could end up with extra weight available and no space to put anything in. Other way around, of course, for non-pulse lasers.

Which also leaves cooling efficiency. Giving up that extra 1 ton for a MPL, or 2 tons for a LPL, means having less weight available for heat sinks to offset those hot E weapons. Given the lower weight:space available ratio (or, more space but less weight), it might be better to take the lighter, standard, longer-burning lasers, and extra heat sinks with the rest of that available space and weight.

It's ALSO up to you, mechwarrior, to figure it out for yourself. What's YOUR ideal balance of heat management, weight:space management, and range bracketing? You'll find your sweet spots. And then you'll have to weigh those considerations for yourself.

[_____]

The difference between pulse and regular lasers is about what role you want to play. ERLL/LL vs LPL for example are pretty different weapons. LL boats allows you out-range a lot of enemy mechs and get favorable trades early on in the match. The STK-4N for example can gimp some mechs before the push starts, giving your team an advantage to start the battle with. LPLs are great during mid to end of the match as the fight gets closer and you want better pinpoint damage and heat efficiency.

ML and MPL are similar enough but mostly it comes down to tonnage. If I have the tonnage, go for MPLs, with one exception which is if I'm trying to find a weapon to complement the LPL. Then the ML and LPL ranges sync fairly well with each other whereas the MPL and LPLs don't.

Edited by BlackhawkSC, 04 January 2016 - 03:03 PM.

[Takashi Uchida]

Great topic. This are my experience (just from normal gameplay, not Community Warfare):

If I'm going laser weaps as a primary damage dealer, I'm generally trying to go for a big alpha strike I can fire without incurring the "ghost heat" penalty. Other factors include things like range, cooldown, duration, quirks, etc (as you mentioned).

I'm just going to talk about Inner Sphere builds, because that's what I have the most experience with.

These are the most of each IS laser type that can be fired without triggering an additional heat penalty:
-LPL + ERLL + LL (3)
-ML (6)
-MPL (6)
-SL and SPL have no ghost heat penalty.

Heavy/Assault Close Ranger, Laserboats

When I'm using lasers as primary weapons on an IS heavy or assault, I generally am looking for a mech that has at least 3 reasonably high energy hardpoints. This is because I really enjoy using the triple LPL in a close to mid-range role. After the 3 LPLs, the choice is to fill the rest out with either ML or MPL.

With MLs + LPLs, you have a sweet spot up to 270m where both weapons types will do full damage. WIth MPLs + LPLs, the sweet spot is a bit shorter at 220m. Duration-wise however, the MPL actually takes 0.07 seconds LESS time on target than the LPL, while the MLs actually require 0.23 MORE seconds than the LPL. The other downsides of MPLs are that they generate more heat per laser than MLs, are are twice the tonnage. Sometimes you just gotta experiment. Generally, in an IS mech, I don't like the alpha strike going above 50% heat on an average temperature map.

It's really about what compliments the triple LPL for me for big mechs. I don't usually take XLs in assaults but occasionally it's fun to mess around with a glass cannon. If I'm using an XL I will likely be outpacing the average assault so I feel more comfortable with MPLs because the speed and extra weight for heat sinks. Don't wanna restate the obvious but doing this will make you much more killable.

In normal cases, I find myself using MLs to compliment the LPLs.

Long Range Laser Supporters

I don't typically use LLs and ERLLs as primary weapons for bigger Inner Sphere mechs because if I end up in a staring contest with any half-capable pilot using a clan laserboat heavy, I will always lose. Similarly, I'm less likely to use autocannons on IS mechs for long-range DPS type builds. It's usually too much time on target to be worth it and the mere existence of Dire Wolves discourages this. BUT, some exceptional mechs work well with LLs, like Stalkers, which have a small frontal profile where twisting is not as crucial. You can do well with a 6 LL build (fire in 3's to avoid ghost heat).

I don't really like playing the 2-3x ERLL light either, but those kind of mechs are a pilot's worst nightmare in the endgame of a close match (if they live that long).

Medium/Light Laser Skirmishers

Sometimes I will try to jam 3 LPLs into a medium. Most of the time it's not worth a compromise in speed (some mechs like the Blackjack handle this type of building alright). If I have only a few energy hardpoints and I still want to use lasers are my primary weapon, usually I'll go with MPLs. Sometimes, one LPL with a few supporting MLs or MPLs.

For fast lights with lots of energy hardpoints I like to run MLs mostly for range. If you're more skilled and can handle yourself up close you might want to use SPLs instead. I find for lights it's really up to how comfortable you are getting close. I do run my Firestarter with MPLs (it has some minorr quirks for it) most of the time.

Lasers as Beginner weapons:

The nice thing about lasers is that they are hitscan weapons. Usually we think of burn duration as a bad thing, but when I first started, I couldn't hit the broad side of an Awesome with an autocannon. A longer beam time (regular laser as oppposed to pulse laser) allowed me more time to correct my aim. From that perspective, lasers, particularly non-pulse lasers, are preferrable to those who haven't developed a steady hand yet, because even if you're spreading that damage everywhere or not getting the full burn on target, some damage beats no damage for a beginner.

That's not to say one shouldn't learn to aim. There was a time in this game where the mechanics of Gauss rifles, AC5s, and PPCs highly rewarded those with precision aiming skills (especially when used with the jump-sniper or "poptart" technique). But those weapons have all had various nerfs since then (charge mechanic, projectile speed, heat, jump jet nerfs, etc), that make them not as strong as they used to be. You still have to aim when using the classic brawler weapons though, which brings me to my last topic here:

Lasers in Conjunction with SRMs and AC20s:

If you take powerful close-range big boomy weapons as your primary armament, you'll usually want some backup lasers in case you run out of ammo, or just to have more dependable firepower. ACs and SRMs have a significant travel time and require you to lead your target if it isn't stationary. This can make them finicky to use alongside lasers.

In these cases, pulse lasers might be preferrable because you're already close anyway and you can twist or duck for cover sooner.

One thing you can do is lead the target, fire your missiles/AC, and IMMEDIATELY after firing, you readjust your reticle to target whatever component you want and fire your lasers, making sure to track the target some you get the full burn. Sometimes your target will be walking into your reticle anyway after you've fired your missiles/AC (you can try firing both simultaneously, you might lose some of the laser burn, especcially if youo'rere using a pulse laser, but you'll be able to pllay defense sooner), other times you might need to adjust on the fly. You can try experimenting with reversing this method (lasers first, then lead for missiles/AC). Either way, if you have a steady hand, pulse lasers can grant you a few fractions of a seconds to shield your mech or take cover.

Off course, the more weapon types you add, the more complicated the target-leading gets. I typically will not go above 3 weapon types of different ranges and speeds For an example: a typical brawler Atlas has an AC20, SRMs, and medium lasers. I don't usually play anything more complicated than that. In these situations, you might even want to limit the use of your lasers to specific situations, like the initial clash with another big slow assault, to ward off would be harassers, or of course when you run into ammo troublee. The logic is, the AC20 and SRMs are high heat but also high damage. You want those weapons to be available without the risk of overheating.

This is by no means an exhaustive write-up but they are my general experiences with pulse lasers vs regular lasers. Your preferences may be different.

Edited by Takashi Uchida, 04 January 2016 - 04:38 PM.