135 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

oh wow this topic keeps coming up i wonder why.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tennex, on 21 February 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

oh wow this topic keeps coming up i wonder why.

Players are very passionate about their position on the subject???

[Orzorn]

Fergrim, on 21 February 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

Hey, I'm about to go to work, thank you everyone who engaged with me on the topic.

In the end, I'm sure we'll all still be playing, alternating turns defending the status quo :]

So are you all happy with the direction they took with sensor boost, PPC and the reduced hitpoints?

If not, what would the next incremental step you'd take be? Incremental being the key word.

I'm absolutely happy with those changes.

I think the next increments need to be reduced streak power, and perhaps either allowing TAG to work inside ECM, or straight up making it so ECM only reduces lock on speeds, not totally cut them off.

Even 50% lock on reduction would be huge.

[Shredhead]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 February 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Just checking the facts. Cause Yes we do. One of the said Missile Boats is the Awesome (8R & 8T). SInce I was considered to be Boating LRMs with 2 LRM20s on my Atlas, These Mechs qualify as Assault class LRM Boats.

Especially boating LRMs on an Atlas is disgusting, as you rob your team of your tanking abilities on the front line.

[Erasus Magnus]

while i agree that ecm is still over the top, it prevents lrms from being ridiculously overpowered again.
yesterday i played an lrm awesome with tag and 3 lrm15 almost exclusively and my k/d ratio went from 2.5 to over 3 within a couple hours of play.

whenever ecm mechs are abscent in a game, it mutates into lrm online again, missiles everywhere and huge amounts of damage/kills done in no time.

the whole system is flawed. ECM, LRM mechanic and streaks form an unholy trinity of problems for this game imo.

Shredhead, on 21 February 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

In using a LRM boat you are a hindrance and a liability to your team, especially when you use an assault mech to do this! People need to learn teamplay! What is wrong with you?

thats not true. at least, when i played my awesome yesterday. i was in a team with 2 of my buddies and most of the games were over pretty fast because of massive lrm spam from myself and another buddy of mine, while the other was in a fast lrm treb. all our mechs had tag.
whenever ecm was absent on the enemies team side, it became a slaughter. that changed, whenever more than 1 ecm was present on the enemies side. then it varied from pretty tough (alpine peaks) to almost impossible (frozen city).

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 21 February 2013 - 03:12 PM.

[Wildstreak]

I have yet to see one rational argument from the Pro-ECM posters about why nothing is wrong. Every post so far supporting ECM in MWO is so chock full of holes, I could drive an Assault Regiment through them and have room to spare.

[danust]

If you desire a mandatory 2 ECM drop more likely 4 (leading to 6-8..12 because it is the most powerful weapon) leave all as is. 3L & D-DC battles. No LRMs or SStreaks to be seen.

I would be happy just to increase slots used and wt with no other changes. 3L ECM with MLlas and SStreaks invincible to SStreak/LRM at over 100kph is a bit much. Heat increase maybe even but just weight would help. God powers no cost, easy call.

I do not boat. Medium and Heavy usaually with ERLLas LLas PPC srm6 MLas combinations with occasional AC/UAC. I added LRM10 for alpine at the cost of a SRM6 + ammo + 2 heat sink. I want to be full range and was glad to rediscover LRMs with PPC changes. And it is fun to reach 0-1000. And I only pack 1t ammo, more is a waste.

[Redacted]

Edited by mcann, 23 February 2013 - 04:22 AM.
applying the CoC, no need for your reply to this Quote

[Joseph Mallan]

Shredhead, on 21 February 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Especially boating LRMs on an Atlas is disgusting, as you rob your team of your tanking abilities on the front line.

Some people just can't think outside the box. Atlas is good for brawling and Long range fire support. If the player isn't equipped with lightning reflexes A Missile boat is a good fit. And the more missiles you can put on target the better. As a team player I can easily work with an Atlas LRM boat by providing "R". Now he can add his LRMs to my Short range load. because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong. There is more than one way to use an Assault. Open your mind to the possibilities. you'll be a better play for it.

[Red squirrel]

Even better than an ECM hardpoint would be a general electronic warefare equipment hard point (EW HP).

Then:
1) Distribute the functionality of ECM over several pieces of equipment.
2) Restrict the usage of ECM e.g. by giving some mechs the EW HP in the head or CT so large equipment does not fit.
3) Give more EW HPs to the worse variants.
e.g. The Jenner K which basically has 1 missile HP less than the D so give it a EW HP to even the number of HPs.

4) The Raven now could be the EW Mech it was supposed to be .. just give it a lot of EW hard points.
5) Try to omit ECM and missile hard points on the same mechs / or let the ECM in disrupt also interfere with your own SSRM/LRM targeting

[Drenzul]

Yep, we just don't want ECM in the state it is now.

Why would you play another light over a Raven 3L as it stands currently in any form of competitive game?

Why would you take another atlas over a D-DC at the moment as it stands?

Basically at the moment the ability to fit ECM over-powers all other mechs of the same basic type and often quite a few others, this means far less diversity which is bad!

[Chou Senwan]

My proposed solution is to tweak Streaks and LRMs, to lower the effective value of ECM.

LRMs fire straight for 180 meters, and only then do they begin to home. However, in that range they can still deal damage if they hit.

Streaks fire straight for 30 meters, after which if they pass within 10 meters of any mech, they redirect and hit that mech, without requiring a target lock.

[Joseph Mallan]

Drenzul, on 22 February 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

Yep, we just don't want ECM in the state it is now.

Why would you play another light over a Raven 3L as it stands currently in any form of competitive game?

Why would you take another atlas over a D-DC at the moment as it stands?

Basically at the moment the ability to fit ECM over-powers all other mechs of the same basic type and often quite a few others, this means far less diversity which is bad!

A fair question. And even with out ECM lets look at the question.
Why take the 3L?
the 3L is a 35 ton light (largest)
respectable weapons capability(one less laser than the Jenner-D & K
Worth taking actually.

Why take the Atlas-D-DC
COMMAND CONSOLE!
trades 2 laser HPs for a 3rd Missile HP
You take the Atlas-D-DC for the inner missile boat captain crying for release. And to be able to call in artillery once it is added to the game.

Ok your question is answered.

For the record I want the ECM to be moved from the D-DC to the Stalker-3Fb. An Assault that actually has an ECM

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 February 2013 - 06:42 AM.

[F lan Ker]

S!

Just make ECM weaken your Heat Efficiency quite a bit. Makes it harder but still provides the benefits of ECM.

[xRatas]

Tikkamasala, on 21 February 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Yes, please provide quotes from the MWO-manual.

What's the point to make battletech game, if you do not give a damn about the ideas in battletech?

Quote

I would hardly call that a majority; it does show that there are still too many players who haven't adapted to ecm yet though.

This always puzzles me. Not adapted? Of course everyone has adapted. If someone kicks you to nuts three times a day, you will most likely adapt to that, but it won't make it any more enjoyable experience. Some weird guy might learn to love it, and some sure loves to keep kicking, but that's about it.

--

Edit: Met you in game too: Was quite suprised that you were driving Raven 3L. Who would have guessed...

Edited by xRatas, 22 February 2013 - 08:16 AM.

[Ulric Kell]

I'm not so keen on many of the proposed options by OP but it would be nice to be able to target mechs without missile lock even with ECM running. Kind of a pain in the butt when everyone has different graphics.

[The Trice]

Here is steps to get a good ECM system to work :
1-Remove the stupid limit that certain mechs that were guided by the Holy truth only can use it , and let every mech use it.
2-everyone will have ecm , and the game will turn to ECM online , and everyone will have to waste 3 tons to use it, but this way they will be able decrease its effect and tweak it by assuming a game full of ecm mechs and they will keep altering it untill community is satisfied.
3- Probably they will realize since ECM is not op anymore , they will let every mech use it.