33 replies to this topic

[LaserAngel]

Kousagi, on 21 February 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

No evidence to this, but they do feel like they stack. At least using both at once makes my LRM stalker pretty deadly. As I've had LRM fights with another boat that didn't have Artemis and only had tag, and I won the exchange by a decent margin. Though Who knows... not sure the devs have stated one way or the other.

You win against someone without Artemis since you have half the lock-on time direct or indirect.

	<Module id="9001" name="ArtemisIV" CType="CArtemisIVStats">
	  <Loc nameTag="@ArtemisIV" descTag="@ArtemisIV_desc" iconTag="4"/>
	  <ArtemisStats lockTime="0.5" trackingStrength="1.5" missileSpread="0.8"/>
	  <ModuleStats slots="1" tons="1.0" health="0"/>
	</Module>

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/80228-math-behind-artemis-iv/page__view__findpost__p__1538436

Your missiles are in the air before they can even launch. Not that I suggest a LRM duel.

Omni 13, on 21 February 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

tag and artemis don't stack :/

Then what did Thomas say...

Edited by LaserAngel, 21 February 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[Ralgas]

artemis also has the advantage over tag of speeding up indirect fire locks, both together isn't a waste on an lrm boat.

[Cebi]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 21 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

TAG and ArtemisIV Stack.
however
ArtemisIV trumps NARC.

Woo a dev response, thanks!

So to clarify; do they stack accuracy? So a TAG-Artemis combo would do more damage per hit?

[Helmer]

Cebi, on 22 February 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

Woo a dev response, thanks!

So to clarify; do they stack accuracy? So a TAG-Artemis combo would do more damage per hit?

Keep an eye out for the Breakdown post.

Thomas said he was try and elaborate more today.





Cheers.

[Cebi]

Helmer, on 22 February 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

Keep an eye out for the Breakdown post.

Thomas said he was try and elaborate more today.





Cheers.

Post has been updated, but it only states lockon time modifiers.

Will Thomas be posting details about the grouping too?

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

Cebi, on 22 February 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Post has been updated, but it only states lockon time modifiers. Will Thomas be posting details about the grouping too?

grouping?

Cebi, on 22 February 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

Woo a dev response, thanks! So to clarify; do they stack accuracy? So a TAG-Artemis combo would do more damage per hit?

Technically yes. I'll update breakdown with an explanation of tracking too in a little bit.

[Cebi]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 22 February 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

grouping?





Technically yes. I'll update breakdown with an explanation of tracking too in a little bit.

Grouping as in how close the missiles are together when they impact the target.

Just seen the update; awesome. Thanks very much for these clarifications, really appreciate it!

For anyone wondering:

http://mwomercs.com/...0089-breakdown/

Edited by Cebi, 22 February 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[Kommisar]

Awesome Tom!!!

I'm not going to say that I alone (or at all) had any impact on your decision to do this. But, I've mentioned in posts that it would be a GREAT thing to have. Thanks for taking the time to help us all out.

I stack TAG and arti on my Stalker and one of my Atlas builds to good effect. I care not for your ECM blanket. And I can even get rounds on ECM lights if the distance is far enough out and they stay in the open to long.

[Phoenix Gray]

Omni 13, on 21 February 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Tag doesn't stack with Artemis but do generally the same thing (only tag can counter slow EMC users but needs a laser slot) also a dev posted a video some time ago of artemis giving you awesome swirly missles insrad of the ugly cloud we have now.


artemis lets your missles lock faster

When ECM kills your Artemis, you need TAG or your LRM launchers are just explosive deadweight.

Taemien, on 21 February 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

TAG takes an energy slot, Artemis just costs criticals and tonnage. For my catapult, I need those energy slots for lasers. Because well, you don't want to get caught with your pants down when a light gets up on you.

Drop one of your four ML's for TAG and switch the other three to MPL. Same DPS but better accuracy and since lights are already on top of you anyway the range reduction isn't much of an issue.

[Kingdok]

TAG, Artemis, Beagle, Sensor Range module, and Target Decay module... my Stalker wins most missile duels with only 45 tubes. The other missile commander, usually in a Stalker with 60 or more tubes, gets in about 1 volley for every 2 volleys I send his way. Having all those upgrades working for you gives you the ability to better exploit speed and cover. You pop out from behind your rock - lock, launch, and scoot your shiny heiny back toward the rock. By the time their return volley is in the air, you are reloaded and launching again just before losing LOS. Target decay module gives your little birds just enough extra lock time to stay on target while the incoming fire mostly eats rock.

Tonnage spent on these upgrades is not wasted. Some of their bonuses stack, while others are more of a complement.

[Taemien]

Phoenix Gray, on 22 February 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

When ECM kills your Artemis, you need TAG or your LRM launchers are just explosive deadweight.



Drop one of your four ML's for TAG and switch the other three to MPL. Same DPS but better accuracy and since lights are already on top of you anyway the range reduction isn't much of an issue.

I lose 90m off the range of my secondary weapons and they cannot fire into the same range bracket as the LRMs. 4 Medium Lasers and 2 LRM 15s into someone at 180-270m is a ton of damage, most assault mechs drop in a few seconds under that. That and there just isn't enough tonnage available for that. 3 MPL+TAG is 6.5 tons, 4 ML is 4 tons. I'd have to drop ammo or DHS and that isn't an option, criticals are maxed out as it is and heat efficiency is taxed a bit.

The build I have is one that works well on most maps. TAG would be great for the missiles, but the missiles are only half the build. The four medium lasers do respectful damage on their own and are used once the distance is closed in conjunction with the missiles and then solely when the ammo runs dry towards the end of the match.

[General Taskeen]

Khobai, on 21 February 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

TAG and Artemis do not work together in tabletop.

TAG is for guiding Arrow cruise missiles and indirect LRMs. While Artemis can only be used on direct fired LRMs.

Its for Artemis Artillery and Semi-Guided LRMs

http://www.sarna.net...Semi-Guided_LRM

Its later tech, but its use and function does exist with TAG in BT.

[Irvine]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 21 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

TAG and ArtemisIV Stack.
however
ArtemisIV trumps NARC.

Thanks.

Everyone who doesnt think they stack. Run a match with just tag. Then run a match with just artemis. Then run a match with Tag+Artemis. You will see a difference. It is criminal to not run Tag+Artemis on a lrm boat nowdays.

[Spheroid]

But if your target is an Atlas-DC does the TAG negate the ECM field which is cancelling the Artemis bonus? Since ECM is so prevalent I would argue it is still dead weight. What is the truth? I know that the TAG and Artemis stack against a non-ECM unit, what about an ECM cloaked target that is LOS of a missile mech with both pieces of gear?

Edited by Spheroid, 23 April 2013 - 10:09 AM.