94 replies to this topic

[Xenois Shalashaska]

The new match making system is screwing me over and my friends. cause we play together every match. we usually when by tactics with medium to heavy mechs. K/d is 3.25. almost every match im in has 4 atlas when we have 1. one match we have 5 mediums, 1 light and 2 heavies. The other team had all assaults and heavies. what the hell is going

[Tuku]

Can I have your stuff?

[Darkslicer]

Xenois Shalashaska, on 21 February 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

The new match making system is screwing me over and my friends. cause we play together every match. we usually when by tactics with medium to heavy mechs. K/d is 3.25. almost every match im in has 4 atlas when we have 1. one match we have 5 mediums, 1 light and 2 heavies. The other team had all assaults and heavies. what the hell is going

I feel the same way. I don't understand how anyone can call this system fair or based on skill when it clearly isn't matched correctly. Things were fine as they were before and the game was a lot funner.

Edited by Darkslicer, 21 February 2013 - 07:46 PM.

[Hawkeye 72]

Darkslicer, on 21 February 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

It's obviously not when you get teams with 5 lights, 2 mediums, and 1 heavy vs. a light, a bunch of heavies, and assaults. I've also seen many matches with 1 Assault vs. 3-4. It is not balanced to weight as it currently is.

Dude your killing me...

It's stated that the thresholds for finding matches increase the longer it takes to find a match. So after 20 seconds if a match isnt found for a maximum tonnage difference of 50 tons, the threshold is increased to 100 tons. After another minute its increased to 150 tons.

Yes this will lead to some imbalances, but would you rather wait 5 minutes to find the perfect match? We saw how well that worked Tuesday.

While I have no definitive evidence that it takes weight into account (because I have looked at zero of the code involved, which happens to be the same amount as you) I am more inclined to trust the developer statement on this than you because you had a couple lopsided matches. Like I said, the thresholds for weight increase so you don't spend 10 minutes waiting for a match. This system will improve over time to, but is still subject to error. There is no perfect matchmaker.

[Pando]

Enemy mistakes are becoming very very important to a victory. Tactically, making the wrong decision usually ends up in a stomping.

[Johnny Morgan]

played a bunch of games today, both solo and 4 mans, and Elo appears to be working well for me.

Both the pug and premade matches we pretty even, in the pugs I ended up losing more than winning but the 4 mans we won more than lost.

overall felt pretty balanced and more 'good' players on each team

[GoManGo]

Xenois Shalashaska, on 21 February 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

The new match making system is screwing me over and my friends. cause we play together every match. we usually when by tactics with medium to heavy mechs. K/d is 3.25. almost every match im in has 4 atlas when we have 1. one match we have 5 mediums, 1 light and 2 heavies. The other team had all assaults and heavies. what the hell is going

Well i think ELO is great now all the HACKING TARDS will have to play eachother lolllllll i hope it makes them quit the game or quit there hacking.

[Oni Ralas]

Vassago Rain, on 21 February 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

deleted

But why aren't the *rest* of your team also matched with the same folks? Again, I'm not saying i'm all that good...but every solo drop I've been in in the last few hours has been *horrible*. It's so lopsided it's not even funny. So if the system was working, then both sides would be monkeys trying to **** a football instead of just one.

[Sprouticus]

Elo WILL take a while to balance out. The reason is that even if you should be at say...1600, if you get a run of bad luck with the players you get on your team it could be many many matches before things even out and you get to the 'right' level,


re: mismatched sizes, I played roughly 20 matches last night, and was watching out for the mismatches all night. I checked every single post match for a missive lopsidedness. It didnt happen. Sure there were a couple where one side otr the other had a light instead of a medium, or 2 assaults and a heavy instead of 3 assaults, but generally speaking that level of difference wont make much of a change in result.

I will say though, I was playing prime NA time, playing off hours might make a difference I suppose.

[Mycrus]

Match results don't matter...

Its game quality that matters...

Since ELO I've noticed that PUGging now has the same intensity as 8s..

Team mates stick together, nobody does stupid moves.. Minutes go by before any side gets a kill.

[Antares Reborn]

Ihasa, on 21 February 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Indeed you are right. I've seen your videos. You are the definitive lone wolf....go off on your own, do what you want, don't stick with the team. Sure you get 3 or 4 kills yourself, but that is often the only kills your team gets. You can build great mechs with awesome firepower. But that means nothing if you don't share that firepower with the LRM suppoprt that is getting hammered by a light or fast medium, or that light getting accosted by a heavy medium chaser.

Your stats perfectly reflect the anti-team player. So do your videos. I'm grateful to you for showing me a build on a new mech class to try, but seriously, you are not Jim Kirk. Your 3 or 4 kills don't mean squat when your team loses so much.

I've heard from others in this forum, sometimes in a troll way, that if you are too often losing, maybe it's not the team you should be blaming. I totally agree. Many of my teams win despite my craptastic marksmanship and often noobish decisions. Because despite my stupid actions, I'm still a team player. I often communicate, and do mostly what I am told unless I'm in a fog of confusion or experiencing an awesome ********.

this is a team game. it takes 8 players to win. not one. (though sometimes that one is so spectacular he can carry a whole team against other baddies).

This is a Team Game.........

Yet they allow people to drop without being in a team. Why?

If they want so much for this to be a team game maybe they should force everyone to find a place on an 8 man team before dropping.

Not everyone wants to be part of a team. If they don't want those players then they are stupid. money spends the same from teams or individuals.

I've already come to the conclusion that this game is likely to fail. The Devs don't seem to understand that you can't focus on one segment of the population and come out ahead. You need to build systems that are attractive to the entire spectrum of players. Its great to have a vision of what you want, but when you put on blinders and see only that vision and not the low hanging fruit along the way, you aren't working smarter.

Edited by Antares Reborn, 21 February 2013 - 08:41 PM.

[Darkslicer]

Hawkeye 72, on 21 February 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Dude your killing me...

It's stated that the thresholds for finding matches increase the longer it takes to find a match. So after 20 seconds if a match isnt found for a maximum tonnage difference of 50 tons, the threshold is increased to 100 tons. After another minute its increased to 150 tons.

Yes this will lead to some imbalances, but would you rather wait 5 minutes to find the perfect match? We saw how well that worked Tuesday.

While I have no definitive evidence that it takes weight into account (because I have looked at zero of the code involved, which happens to be the same amount as you) I am more inclined to trust the developer statement on this than you because you had a couple lopsided matches. Like I said, the thresholds for weight increase so you don't spend 10 minutes waiting for a match. This system will improve over time to, but is still subject to error. There is no perfect matchmaker.

That would be a good explanation if not for the fact that each of those games I mentioned got matched within 10 seconds. There needs to be a greater focus on weight balance or people will exploit this system to no end. Right now it's not about skill level, but who gets the better balance of mechs. This could easily be fixed by lobbying players together on a team before the match starts so you can each see what you're all picking and pick your own mechs accordingly. That's pretty much how LoL handled ELO and it worked a lot better (though people would still find ways to exploit it, but I'm not going into that). ELO is pretty much gone now from that game though and replaced by a division system which works a lot better for team games in my opinion, though that has its problems too.

[Slicer]

Personally i'm getting a bit irked at my team getting consistently outweighed by over 150 tons. I'm starting to feel theres no point for me to bring a non optimized light or medium (mostly trebs atm) to the party, when i risk the enemy being a roughly equivalent pilot to me but being in an optimized assault or heavy. I'm still winning most of my games but at a slightly lower clip (from 90% to like 75% roughly), but alot of the battles my team is losing is cuz we're getting grossly outweighed and a bunch of my folks were bringing in non ecm ravens, commandos, and cicadas to the party (including myself i'm trying to level up my Trebs without max optimizing them). God help us if it's not conquest and scouts fail to report how much metal we're going up against. Its one thing if i'm going up against inferior pilots in bigger mechs, but going up against similar/better pilots AND they're in bigger mechs across the board....

[MayGay]

I see no difference in the skill level of people I'm playing against, some are better than me, some are not as good. I'm better now than I was and I have a couple of builds that really work for me namely my 6 medpulse stalker

anyway I see no real change

[xX_Nero_Xx]

then you need to read the post call you know your in elo hell when

[Ihasa]

Antares Reborn, on 21 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

This is a Team Game.........

Yet they allow people to drop without being in a team. Why?

If they want so much for this to be a team game maybe they should force everyone to find a place on an 8 man team before dropping.

Not everyone wants to be part of a team. If they don't want those players then they are stupid. money spends the same from teams or individuals.

I've already come to the conclusion that this game is likely to fail. The Devs don't seem to understand that you can't focus on one segment of the population and come out ahead. You need to build systems that are attractive to the entire spectrum of players. Its great to have a vision of what you want, but when you put on blinders and see only that vision and not the low hanging fruit along the way, you aren't working smarter.

Then why are you here? You sound like a typical Star Trek Online player complaining about how optional 5-man pvp shouldn't even be included in that game simply because it requires 5 people acting like a unit to win.

This in an 8 man pvp game. If you or anyone else doesn't want to be a functional part of an 8 man unit, this game is not for you.

The people that don't realize that fact are the ones having the worst time and complaining the most.

[RickySpanish]

When Elo first came on I had a slew of really, really tough matches against some very coordinated opponents, only to find out it was most likely 4-8 mans dropping into my games. Today though every match I've played has been a good game, with players changing up strategies mid-fight, supporting each other, positioning themselves intelligently, listening to chat and no one complaining when something goes wrong. It could all be luck, but I'm pretty stoked at how much more entertaining these matches have been; even when I've died early on, I've felt compelled to stick around just to see how the other guys are playing.

[Ter Ushaka]

The Jeff Lynne System will take time to sort everyone out. It's not a magical instant cure-all.

[MischiefSC]

My matches all day have been incredible. A couple of games (out of like 50) that had some weight balancing issues but skill wise it's been pretty excellent. Far more competent people on each side.

Admittedly I mostly pugged before and largely still do now. I never teamed up to farm pugs and as such never inflated my score well beyond my skills. I've had nothing but awesome matches since Elo went in.

Be patient. You may need to lose a lot before you drop down to an Elo level commensurate with where your skill level places you when pugging or when playing against people and teams of a comparable skill.

[Roland]

Honestly, I'm seeing some pretty good games. Last night, I played in a bunch of matches where the same folks were basically in every game.. but it kept mixing us up, so some times folks would be on the other team, other times they'd be on my team. Overall, it was quite fun, and reminded me of playing on the old HRR NR3 server back in Mechwarrior 4.

Pando, on 21 February 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

Enemy mistakes are becoming very very important to a victory. Tactically, making the wrong decision usually ends up in a stomping.

Ya, I think this is often going to be the case. It was how many NR games went back in MW4.

If both teams have pilots who can hit what they are aiming for, mechs can drop quite fast if they get out of position. And once a mech drops, the advantage the other team has is likely to be exploited, which will make mechs drop faster, increasing the advantage, etc.

Overall, I have to say I like the ranking system. I've been in some games where I'm surprised at the bad moves some folks make, but for the most part, folks seem to know what's going on.

I suspect that after a few weeks, the scores will settle down quite a bit.

The little "Solo play only" tournament is a smart move on the part of the devs, as it'll accelerate the rate at which folks' scores get knocked up/down to where they should be, as individuals.