11 replies to this topic

[RavenerTBC]

I understand that the devs are working on the physics model for Mech collisions. I'd like to see a simple mechanic introduced along with that to simulate the piloting skill roll in the tabletop rules as well as give players more power over the almighty RNG god.

I envision a new temporary HUD element consisting of a large opaque circle that appears over the crosshairs and exterior action whenever your Mech is in danger of losing its balance due to collision, falling or other extreme event. Within the 'A' circle, a much smaller 'B' circle outline would be centered. Finally, a 'C' circle or pip would appear at a distance from the center of B representative of the severity of the Mech's imbalance.

So, for example, a Jenner running at 130kph into a stationary Atlas would have a "balance overlay" pop up over their crosshairs, with the C pip at the bottom of the A circle, like so:



The C pip appears at the bottom to reflect the force acting on the Jenner to fall over backward. A less violent collision would have the C pip closer to the B circle.

The WASD controls now control the movement of the C pip for the duration of the imbalance as the player tries to center the C pip for the next second or so. If he succeeds, the Mech recovers its balance; if not, it falls. Once the outcome is determined, the overlay disappears and controls are restored.

The size of the B circle and the speed of the C pip could be influenced by Mech type (some designs more stable), piloting tree unlocks, and even modules.

The entire overlay could even be disabled in game options by default to avoid newbie overload.

[Xandralkus]

This is actually a brilliant idea. I like it!

*gives stamp of approval*

Make it so, developers! But fix lag and heat first.

Edited by Xandralkus, 01 November 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[Agent CraZy DiP]

Sounds like a mini-game... Also sounds impossible to do with a joystick or gamepad.

[Ceribus]

Yeah I like the idea in some ways but it would have to be implemented in a way that would not interrupt the overall game and pull you out of the sim feel.... So the opaque part would have to go for sure also just because your trying to maintain balance does not mean you should suddenly lose throttle control and steering, so a different control scheme.... Maybe just something similar to what you said but off to one side instead of over your cross hairs and translucent instead of opaque. Also instead of the WASD directly moving the pip it move in relation to how you move you mech, about to fall backwards, throw your mech in reverse, as it steps back it would regain it's balance.

[Agent CraZy DiP]

I guess it could be as simple as tilt your view in the opposite direction that you're starting to fall. A simple indicator like the red damage indicator around the edge of the screen. And this could be yet another reason to add better actuators into the game. Pay some extra C-Bills for your fast moving Mechs to help their balance.

[CHWarpath]

Adding complexity where it is not needed is not a good idea in a video game. Fun factor should be paramount not complexity, skilless weapons, grinding, poorly balanced table top ideas.

[masterstranger]

Ceribus, on 01 November 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Yeah I like the idea in some ways but it would have to be implemented in a way that would not interrupt the overall game and pull you out of the sim feel.... So the opaque part would have to go for sure also just because your trying to maintain balance does not mean you should suddenly lose throttle control and steering, so a different control scheme.... Maybe just something similar to what you said but off to one side instead of over your cross hairs and translucent instead of opaque. Also instead of the WASD directly moving the pip it move in relation to how you move you mech, about to fall backwards, throw your mech in reverse, as it steps back it would regain it's balance.

RavenerTBC, on 01 November 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

I understand that the devs are working on the physics model for Mech collisions. I'd like to see a simple mechanic introduced along with that to simulate the piloting skill roll in the tabletop rules as well as give players more power over the almighty RNG god.

I envision a new temporary HUD element consisting of a large opaque circle that appears over the crosshairs and exterior action whenever your Mech is in danger of losing its balance due to collision, falling or other extreme event. Within the 'A' circle, a much smaller 'B' circle outline would be centered. Finally, a 'C' circle or pip would appear at a distance from the center of B representative of the severity of the Mech's imbalance.

So, for example, a Jenner running at 130kph into a stationary Atlas would have a "balance overlay" pop up over their crosshairs, with the C pip at the bottom of the A circle, like so:



The C pip appears at the bottom to reflect the force acting on the Jenner to fall over backward. A less violent collision would have the C pip closer to the B circle.

The WASD controls now control the movement of the C pip for the duration of the imbalance as the player tries to center the C pip for the next second or so. If he succeeds, the Mech recovers its balance; if not, it falls. Once the outcome is determined, the overlay disappears and controls are restored.

The size of the B circle and the speed of the C pip could be influenced by Mech type (some designs more stable), piloting tree unlocks, and even modules.

The entire overlay could even be disabled in game options by default to avoid newbie overload.

Agent CraZy DiP, on 01 November 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

I guess it could be as simple as tilt your view in the opposite direction that you're starting to fall. A simple indicator like the red damage indicator around the edge of the screen. And this could be yet another reason to add better actuators into the game. Pay some extra C-Bills for your fast moving Mechs to help their balance.

Something like this would be pretty amazing, imagine clipping a wall and having to turn your mech to face roughly what you clipped as well as throwing your mech into reverse and or forward to counter it. Realism, and would make it feel like you're piloting a multiton bipedal tank.

Though over use of it could be bad, a heap of mechs turning and such to just stay upright wouldn't be too much fun to watch/ fight with

[Lawler]

The whole idea of the mechs gyro is supposed to take the majority of this away from the pilot so that he or she could take care of the business of fighting, so I don't think it should ever come up just because you "ran into an atlas". In the comparison to table top, charging was a relatively simple affair that involved the weight of both mechs almost exclusively. Only the damage was based on the speed of the charging mech. To remain upright, the lighter mech always had the relative disadvantage regardless of the distance traveled. Please keep in mind that this information is just what I can remember right now and I could have forgot a couple things in the 20 years or so since I last played the game.

To the point of the thread, I like the idea of having somewhat better control over the prospect of actually falling since the fall mechanics were quite horribly broken and easily exploitable. That said, this is why there moved them temporarily. Now we have unstoppable light mechs with lag shields and super lasers, but at least they can't keep endlessly tripping a player so they can't even play the game before they get blown up.

[ice trey]

I'd made a thread almost exactly like this, and at around the same time, too.

I'm all for collisions being brought back into the game - but it has to be done with tact. It's already hard as hell to navigate a light running at 120 Kph through buildings and enemy 'mechs while dodging weapons fire and running from that one Streak Raven 3L. The inclusion of collisions without something like this put back into the game would greatly reduce the desirability of light 'mechs, and we'll end up with MW4 all over again, especially as the supposed "lag shield" has since been greatly improved upon.

[Roland]

Quote

The whole idea of the mechs gyro is supposed to take the majority of this away from the pilot so that he or she could take care of the business of fighting, so I don't think it should ever come up just because you "ran into an atlas".

Eh, not really.

The point of the neurohelmet in a battlemech is to link the pilot's own internal balancing abilities to the mech. Different pilots have differing levels of skill, resulting in different abilities when it comes to certain types of actions.

Having some kind of system by which a skilled pilot could prevent falling down isn't necessarily a bad idea.

Although I'd point out... it may be totally unnecessary.

What's the equivalent of the piloting skill roll in MWO? NOT RAMMING YOUR LIGHT MECH INTO THE ATLAS.

If you rammed into a building or atlas, you have already effectively failed your piloting skill roll. You are a crappy driver.

[TheMagician]

MW4 had dmg based knockdowns. It was not overly well implemented. I guess I'm open to the idea. It would create interesting situations, and mech builds which were all about knocking somebody down. But it shouldn't be a random roll.

Edited by TheMagician, 22 February 2013 - 08:48 AM.

[blinkin]

Agent CraZy DiP, on 01 November 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Sounds like a mini-game... Also sounds impossible to do with a joystick or gamepad.

if i am understanding this correctly having a joystick of some kind would give you more control.

CHWarpath, on 01 November 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

Adding complexity where it is not needed is not a good idea in a video game. Fun factor should be paramount not complexity, skilless weapons, grinding, poorly balanced table top ideas.

some who have played with the old collision physics (like myself) see this or something else as very thoroughyl needed.




i would like something like this, but it would be very difficult for new players to get used to it in the game as things are currently. overall i have some concerns about how this would affect gameplay.

Edited by blinkin, 22 February 2013 - 01:08 PM.