20 replies to this topic

[Death Mallet]

This is technology that in the real world has existed since at least the 1960s. . . the idea that a 31st century battlemech *wouldn't* have it is ridiculous.


In fact, just before the patch I was wondering as I was playing why the game didn't have the feature.

[Elder Thorn]

by your argumentation we should not be using Mechs but Tanks and choppers

edit:
ok, pleaso don't get me wrong. If you like that feature, i'll respect that, even if i don't like it. But i just think real world tech shouldn't have anything to do with the tech ingame. Seen from that point of view, the flamer, for example, is not only useless right now, but also ********

Edited by Elder Thorn, 21 February 2013 - 08:59 AM.

[Max Liao]

BattleTech has often, more often than not, eschewed real science in its own canon and lore.

Personally, I find the feature annoying - (I don't want to hear it), and a detriment to both scout 'Mechs and LRM 'Mechs. It's a crutch for people who can't use terrain, the 360 module, or realize that they are being tagged.

[Corvus Antaka]

In the real world missiles go a lot further than 1000 meters too...

[Death Mallet]

Max Liao, on 21 February 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

BattleTech has often, more often than not, eschewed real science in its own canon and lore.

Personally, I find the feature annoying - (I don't want to hear it), and a detriment to both scout 'Mechs and LRM 'Mechs. It's a crutch for people who can't use terrain, the 360 module, or realize that they are being tagged.

I'd be all about giving players the option of enabling or disabling various warning messages through a bunch of checkboxes. Let people customize what they want to hear. In fact, I'll go post a suggestion about this.

But the idea that people want laser guided warheads (TAG), computer controlled fire control systems (Artemis, Streaks), Magnetic Coil Guns - something we still don't have except on paper (Gauss Rifles). . . not to mention small, lightweight cold fusion reactors, magical mech muscles, and a zillion other things. . .

But then DON'T want basic threat warning systems that we've had for 50+ years. . .

Sorry. . . suck it up guys.

[Inertiaman]

Suck what up? Are you supposed to be some sort of drill Sergeant? You know this is game and not real right?

What happens in real life is literally sod all to do with it. It's about what makes balanced and immersive gameplay. By extension of your own pointless proclamations just about every weapon in this game would be completely redundant. Gauss cannon when you have lasers? Why bother? AC' when you have lasers? Why bother. Lasers when you have missiles that can cross countries? Why bother?

Not to mention the fact that the gyros in this mechs would have to be made of something either supernaturally dense or downright massive to compensate for the speeds and momentum that turning a 100 ton mech at 60kph would entail.

The "durp derp because real life" conversation really doesn't stop at the small part of the game that you've chose to apply to it to so please either start talking about this like it were a game (it is) or leave us all out of your underachiever faux-military daydream bs.

kkthx.

http://mwomercs.com/...targetted-poll/

And suck that up whilst you're at it Drill Captain Super Shooter Colonel Man.

[Death Mallet]

Inertiaman, on 21 February 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Suck what up? Are you supposed to be some sort of drill Sergeant? You know this is game and not real right?

What happens in real life is literally sod all to do with it. It's about what makes balanced and immersive gameplay. By extension of your own pointless proclamations just about every weapon in this game would be completely redundant. Gauss cannon when you have lasers? Why bother? AC' when you have lasers? Why bother. Lasers when you have missiles that can cross countries? Why bother?

Not to mention the fact that the gyros in this mechs would have to be made of something either supernaturally dense or downright massive to compensate for the speeds and momentum that turning a 100 ton mech at 60kph would entail.

The "durp derp because real life" conversation really doesn't stop at the small part of the game that you've chose to apply to it to so please either start talking about this like it were a game (it is) or leave us all out of your underachiever faux-military daydream bs.

kkthx.

http://mwomercs.com/...targetted-poll/

And suck that up whilst you're at it Drill Captain Super Shooter Colonel Man.

LOL, a little ruffled are we?

In case you were actually wondering:

Gauss rifle when you have lasers:
In the first place because gauss rifles (would) do a LOT more damage to the target and would do it instantaneously in a concentrated location. Lasers on the other hand require time on target to damage it, as well as suffer from thermal bloom.
http://panoptesv.com...alBlooming.html

AC vs Lasers
The AC is a much cheaper and less maintenance intensive weapon system than a laser, and can't be defeated by laser reflective armor coatings, chaff clouds, and such. Also ACs don't drain the onboard power system as the projectile has the propellant contained within it. Unlike a laser which is a HUGE amount of power drain.

Lasers vs. Missiles
Missiles are big and bulky, and be spoofed by Electronic Counter Measures, and shot down by ballistic or laser point defense systems. Missiles are expensive, require a lot of industrial capacity, and a huge logistics train to maintain.
http://news.cnet.com...0011143-52.html

Mech Movement
As far as mech movement goes, I would assume that when a fast moving mech turns it plants its outside foot at an angle to assist in the redirection of momentum. . . just like a runner. Its a limitation of the graphics system that doesn't show that.


As far as your actual point goes. . . I'm not saying everything needs to be totally realistic, its a sci fi game after all. I'm just saying that having a mech game without rudimentary threat detection systems would be like creating a WW2 game without machine guns.

Edited by Death Mallet, 21 February 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[Monky]

I like the feature, but I can see how some people would dislike it. An option for it to be on/off, yes yes.

Edited by Monky, 21 February 2013 - 11:36 AM.

[JadePanther]

I think the real problem here is that the OP drives a LRM boat or a D-DC and doesnt have to listen to the constant unrelenting repetition of WARNING TARGETED. He prolly only hears it on seldom occasions and then it means something.. Like A... sombody finnaly found him.. or B.. His ECM has stopped working.

But Hearing this blaring away for minutes at a time is annoying as all hell.. Yes i'm being targeted i'm in the middle of a G-dang brawl of course i'm gonna be targetted.. Tell me soemthing i dont effin know. Like uhh i dont know maybe that critical heat message that i missed because i quit paying attention to ur incessant blathering about being targeted.

The fact is that the warning is WAAAAY OVERDONE. People are starting to try and actively tune or hack it out.. which for all intensive purposes defeats its purpose making it useless. Some people i venture are turning thier sound off altogether, just to avoid it.

It has minor situational uses for a few people that may benifit from it.. For most people it is becoming an annoyance and counter productive. It's beginning to interfere with more critical messages that need attention. And it is detracting from all the rest of the great sound this game presents.. How can the awesome sounds of combat be enjoyed if people turn thier speakers off to avoid hearing this crap over an over.

Go back to ur ECM or camper-mobile where u dont have to listen to betty all day and pop a cassette of barney in to listen over and over to. Maybe a couple hours of I love you, you love me crap will get u on the same page as the rest of us.

[Death Mallet]

JadePanther, on 21 February 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

I think the real problem here is that the OP drives a LRM boat or a D-DC and doesnt have to listen to the constant unrelenting repetition of WARNING TARGETED. He prolly only hears it on seldom occasions and then it means something.. Like A... sombody finnaly found him.. or B.. His ECM has stopped working.

. . .

Go back to ur ECM or camper-mobile where u dont have to listen to betty all day and pop a cassette of barney in to listen over and over to. Maybe a couple hours of I love you, you love me crap will get u on the same page as the rest of us.

Well as much as I LOL'ed at your pointless rage-fest. . . you would be wrong.

In fact the only 3 mechs in my garage right now are:

AS7-D(F)
AWS-9M
Ilya Muromets

None of them have so much as a single LRM mounted (and of course no ECM in the bunch).

And maybe. . . if you stop drooling spittle on your keyboard long enough to read the forums. . you might also see that I posted this in the suggestions forum. . . just like I said I would:

http://mwomercs.com/...bitching-betty/

Edited by Death Mallet, 21 February 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[Monky]

I think there are a few things that BB says that should be replaced with beeps (JJ fuel at 25/0%, incoming missile, target acquired, possibly this as well.) Basically, JJ fuel you'll run out before she finishes saying 'fuel' for the 25% warning, it's an impractical warning. incoming missile is decent against LRMs but SRM/Streak have the same problem as the JJ fuel one, no time to process/benefit from the info. Target acquired/you're targeted are just very frequent in game and should be replaced with short, distinctive, and unobtrusive beeps.

[Liquidx]

I would be ok with keeping the warning perhaps - if equipping something like BAP allowed the attacker to supress the message for the target.

IE:
Attacker without BAP targets an enemy. The enemy gets a warning.
Attacker WITH BAP targets an enemy. The enemy gets no warning.

BAP is supposed to be an advanced sensor suite after all, so why not give it some functionality.

Further, apply this concept to AMS.
IE:
Target with AMS gets an incoming missile warning.
Target WITHOUT AMS gets no warning.

I think this would give players much more incentive to carry both of these equipment types (and make the difficult choice around tonnage where necessary). I think this would make the game more interesting without taking situational awareness away from the players. If you feel you are good enough (or lucky enough) that you don't need these warning systems, you run without their components and gain the benefit of extra tonnage for more heatsinks or larger weapons - but if you need some help where your awareness is concerned, you pack on the extra electronics and make the tonnage sacrifice.

Seems to me the game needs to implement more of these types of decisions for players to make.

[Monky]

This is a nifty idea ^

[Flapdrol]

This "targeted" warning has only a very slight impact on gameplay.

[Death Mallet]

Liquidx, on 21 February 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I would be ok with keeping the warning perhaps - if equipping something like BAP allowed the attacker to supress the message for the target.

IE:
Attacker without BAP targets an enemy. The enemy gets a warning.
Attacker WITH BAP targets an enemy. The enemy gets no warning.

BAP is supposed to be an advanced sensor suite after all, so why not give it some functionality.

Further, apply this concept to AMS.
IE:
Target with AMS gets an incoming missile warning.
Target WITHOUT AMS gets no warning.

I think this would give players much more incentive to carry both of these equipment types (and make the difficult choice around tonnage where necessary). I think this would make the game more interesting without taking situational awareness away from the players. If you feel you are good enough (or lucky enough) that you don't need these warning systems, you run without their components and gain the benefit of extra tonnage for more heatsinks or larger weapons - but if you need some help where your awareness is concerned, you pack on the extra electronics and make the tonnage sacrifice.

Seems to me the game needs to implement more of these types of decisions for players to make.

I think this is a great idea!

[Sasha Volkova]

When I close in on a fight, I tend to press R as much as possible, just to freak out the enemy since they will be hearing the ¨targeted¨ warning over and over and over as i switch between them.

[JadePanther]

Flapdrol, on 21 February 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

This "targeted" warning has only a very slight impact on gameplay.

Yep turning off all sound when u play the game is a slight impact. but if thats what ya gotta do to shut her up....

[Liquidx]

Flapdrol, on 21 February 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

This "targeted" warning has only a very slight impact on gameplay.

I disagree.

It makes it incredibly difficult to spot for LRMs, since everyone starts looking around to see who is targeting them. It also makes it more difficult for LRMs to be effective. You need to target, then wait for the lock - by the time you've established lock, the target has moved back into cover. At least with only the incoming missile warning, the missiles are 1/2 way to the target before they start breaking for cover.

Further, it treats players like stupids who can't see enemies on their own, and it gives false positives (I've been behind a hill completely concealed with my team and gotten the targeted warning before). This was not the case of a spotter or other scout/flank - it was just a false alert.

it's just all around bad.

[Nostram]

I would accept the feature if there were a "subterfuge module" or something of that nature that would NOT warn enemies when you have a lock on them. Granted that would just be "accepted" as opposed to liked. I hate it, I wish I could disable hearing it on my end without disabling hearing all the other stuff. Betty needs a checklist of things you want to hear and not hear as well as some solution to the current "targeted" situation.

[B4silisk]

I have to say this feature bothers me quite a lot. It is kinda irritating when you manage to sneak around the enemy and the moment you see their backs they all just turn around and sstart shooting because of "Warning, you have been targeted...".
And no, this is not the qq of an ECMTroll, it´s actually a CDA-2A with 6 medium lasers having a much harder time doing her job.