17 replies to this topic

[FrupertApricot]

I have resisted using ECM mechs for their entire run, but i just hopped into a non mastered 2d and 3l and can basically play one handed now. Duels against other light mechs take about half as much attention and work on my part an dgenerally go better. How can anyone think this is balanced? its just an easy mode passive buff.

[Adrian Steel]

FrupertApricot, on 23 February 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

I have resisted using ECM mechs for their entire run, but i just hopped into a non mastered 2d and 3l and can basically play one handed now. Duels against other light mechs take about half as much attention and work on my part an dgenerally go better. How can anyone think this is balanced? its just an easy mode passive buff.

Paul Inouye does. Send him some hate mail.

Edited by Adrian Steel, 23 February 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[MischiefSC]

You are mistaken. It makes the game moar betterer. Moar taktical. You has to speak taktics to know how amazingly complicated and rich ECM is. It makes the whole game moar fun....

for about 26% of the games population. Everyone else pretty much hates it.

[Hedonism Robot]

I've said it time and time again, ECM does not make the player it's skill plus the use of the ECM that makes it work. I used to admittedly not be that great of a pilot but then I unlocked both the DDC Atlas and the Raven 3L. These mechs with the ECM allowed me to maximize my piloting skill and now my ELO has gone up a lot! I think as players become more skilled pilots they will start to use the ECM.

[Tahribator]

MischiefSC, on 23 February 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

I've said it time and time again, ECM does not make the player it's skill plus the use of the ECM that makes it work. I used to admittedly not be that great of a pilot but then I unlocked both the DDC Atlas and the Raven 3L. These mechs with the ECM allowed me to maximize my piloting skill and now my ELO has gone up a lot! I think as players become more skilled pilots they will start to use the ECM.[/color]

Yes, locking the enemy once while mashing mouse 1 for streaks continously takes an incredible skill and advanced game knowledge. That poor guy will probably try to shoot your legs off with some careful aim. How low skill, he should have taken streaks as well.

Try some Cicadas or Jenners/Commandos without ECM's and Streaks sometime and see how high your "piloting skill" is.

Edited by Tahribator, 23 February 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[FrupertApricot]

Im a good piilot, nearly standard 1/1 ratio entirely p ugging so i must be dead average honestly, but with a streakECM mech i dont even have to try and im doing as well or better than before. its not even a tactical decision, or a build decision, its just simply "better".

And i think we have been testing this long enough to be able to say, ECM in its current implementtation is junk. instead of changing other gear to deal with it, they need to finally change ECM itself.

Edited by FrupertApricot, 23 February 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Adrian Steel]

Hedonism Robot, on 23 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

I've said it time and time again, ECM does not make the player it's skill plus the use of the ECM that makes it work. I used to admittedly not be that great of a pilot but then I unlocked both the DDC Atlas and the Raven 3L. These mechs with the ECM allowed me to maximize my piloting skill and now my ELO has gone up a lot! I think as players become more skilled pilots they will start to use the ECM.

Skill + cheese builds will always make it to the top. What's your point exactly?

Edit: Subtle troll is subtle?

Edited by Adrian Steel, 23 February 2013 - 12:17 PM.

[MischiefSC]

FrupertApricot, on 23 February 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Im a good piilot, nearly standard 1/1 ratio entirely p ugging so i must be dead average honestly, but with a streakECM mech i dont even have to try and im doing as well or better than before. its not even a tactical decision, or a build decision, its just simply "better".

And i think we have been testing this long enough to be able to say, ECM in its current implementtation is junk. instead of changing other gear to deal with it, they need to finally change ECM itself.

Don't hold your breath unfortunately. It's 'working as designed'. The game is made to cater for about 10-20% of the games population. Competitive team play. Everyone else is expendable content-generators. Of course you hate it, it's designed to exploit you.

[Hedonism Robot]

FrupertApricot, on 23 February 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Im a good piilot, nearly standard 1/1 ratio entirely p ugging so i must be dead average honestly, but with a streakECM mech i dont even have to try and im doing as well or better than before. its not even a tactical decision, or a build decision, its just simply "better".

And i think we have been testing this long enough to be able to say, ECM in its current implementtation is junk. instead of changing other gear to deal with it, they need to finally change ECM itself.

Many players confuse getting better with the game and the ECM. It sounds like you have become more skilled and have started to learn to use this item. Like any high skill cap weapon the Raven 3L takes a long time to master! Also as you upgrade it you will find you get more kills too. Are double heatsinks OP? No! So why is a small upgrade like the ECM OP?

[FrupertApricot]

ECM isnt competitive or encouraging teamwork, all it does is give a flat advantage in light vs light fights. heat vision lets you scout for enemes at insane range and tag lets you lock em easy for lrms, but for light v light it makes it a win button

[wwiiogre]

I have posted many times in many different threads.

Current ECM in MWO is not the ecm that is in this timeline for BattleTech it is effectively Null Sig.

ECM in this timeline does 3 things which have to be toggled not two things.

1. ECM in this timeline stops Narc/Artemis bonus
2. Counter ECM
3. Ghost Targeting which makes it harder to hit, not impossible to get a lock which is what Current MWO does called null sig

Ghost Targeting in BT is countered by BAP and Command Console, Current ECM in MWO has no counter and does two things at the same time.

In BT, ECM can stop Narc/Artemis, counter ECM or Ghost Target, not three settings, none that apply at same time.
In MWO ECM stops Narc/Artemis, Does not allow a lock except within x amount of meters and can counter ECM.

So yeah, ECM as it is in MWO is broken, does not follow timeline and is completely overpowered.

No Where in BT lore or canon does ECM make it impossible to lock on to a target, it just makes it harder to lock on. Only Null Sig makes it impossible to lock on unless within x amount of meters.

So yeah, broken, and a piece of equipment from the future of BT. Not from this timeline. Why have a specific timeline and then choose not to follow it?

How could this current ECM be fixed within the rules of MWO. Using current items and ideas already in game.

Perhaps instead of no lock, current ECM could make it take longer to lock. Say 6 seconds. With BAP reducing that by 1 second and Command Console reducing it by 2 seconds and yes they stack for a whopping half reduction to a 3 second lock time. This is over and above the current lock times.

What would this do to MWO, it would make every weapon usable against ECM, it would however allow the scout mech to have a grace period to attempt to disengage before getting ***** by the more powerful mechs around it if it is stupid enough to get within range and line of sight of bigger mechs. This means a light mech with ecm would be a scout mech. Not a brawling, I am immune to the only weapons that can really hurt me ssrm.

Also make the ECM require three settings, 1. stops narc/artemis but not TAG 2. Ghost Targets making it take longer to lock on mech 3. Counters ECM. This adds another layer and depth to the tactics of using ECM.

Note modules already allow locks to last longer so why not have some that make it take less time to lock when combined with ecm or bap or command console, wait we have target info gathering that already does that. Also you could have pilot skills that also reduce lock times etc. Once again adding depth to the game, instead of just an ecm easy button for the win.

The other bigger problem that is rarely talked about when dealing with ECM is the problem of Light Hit Boxes not applying damage correctly due to lag/netcode. Since we all know hitting Atlas DC in the open even when it is under ecm is not a problem and the PPC emp effect now counters the Atlas ECM, and tag works as well. But TAG and *** fire against lights at range going 140+kph is not a counter it is more a chance. *** does not knock down ecm long enough for a mech to get a lock, then fire lrm's at range, the ecm comes back up, lrm's lose lock and therefore are useless.

So there you have it, current ecm is not ECM of BT, it is null sig. Which makes it a weapon system from the future which is why it is broken in its current state. A fix is easily available and brings ECM back into the timeline, adds more tactical depth and means every weapon system can counter it eventually. Not the broken counters that are currently sometimes working in MWO now. It also means lights with ECM if it is changed would have to be more cautious and actually play like the scouts they are instead of the beasts they have become. I can regularly get 500-700 damage while in my Raven 3L. I refuse to play the mech now cause it is broken. I only use it in 8 mans since if you don't bring more ecm than the other team in 8 mans you lose 95% of those matches. Which is a big case and reason why ECM is broken. 8 man competitive play is about who brings the most, not who is the better team most of the time.

Sorry for the wall of text but at this point it needs to be said.

When I post this in every forum thread about ECM, nobody bothers to try to refute my points intellectually. Let's see if anyone here is up to a real intellectual debate based on the facts and merits, rather than I want my easy button min/max for the win and dude you got no skillz blather that is generally spewed here.

Chris

Edited by wwiiogre, 23 February 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[Stormwolf]

I also got me a Raven 3L, it's the only light mech you will ever need.

[Kobold]

The problem isn't ECM, necessarily. The problem is Streaks are the best/most effective way to kill lights. So when two lights fight, the one that can use the most streaks wins.

[FrupertApricot]

and you cant use streaks reliably without ECM.

[Pihb]

Yes the combo of ssrm's and ecm make piloting a light mech a joke. I know this, you know this, everyone knows this. Aren't there like 40 other threads you can add too instead of making a redundant post?

[Rebas Kradd]

ECM makes you hard to see coming from around a building, and thus gives you a split-second advantage in tight spaces that's often all a decent pilot needs.

[Galathon Redd]

[Roughneck45]

The synergy of Streaks and ECM is the problem. It has diluted the light game. Skill is still a factor, but much less so, and having ECM is the bar for entry.