33 replies to this topic

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Gaan Cathal, on 23 February 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

In fairness, you did just state you were nigh-invincible for over two hours...

Seriously, what is your ping? This is a relevant query.

Also, was that stint in a 3L the first light piloting you've done in the last, say, month? This is also a relevant query.

a week ago, had it for 5 hours, then sold it to go towards refitting my founders atlas. first time ever in a raven.

the reason I sold it wasn't because it was powerful as all hell, my favorite mech is dual gauss after all. I sold it because i'm really bad with my finances ;_; and will probably buy it back soon if I don't blow all my cbills on some novelty build again.


honestly, if I'm going to be completely serious here, I'm not trying to come up with excuses for losing. I'm just noting that there's really no reason to pilot a light besides the 3L unless you're sentimental. That goes for the cicada too... unless of course you want an ecm gauss sniper or something. that's.. hmm now there's an idea

Edited by Battlecruiser, 23 February 2013 - 09:38 PM.

[Valore]

Not sure if people are having the same problem.

The patches before the Trebuchet one improved things a lot, it was a jump forward you really noticed.

After the Trebuchet patch, things seem to have taken a step backwards. Might just be the lagginess from Alpine and this weekend's server load influencing things, but it does seem to have gotten slightly worse again.

[Gaan Cathal]

Battlecruiser, on 23 February 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

a week ago, had it for 5 hours, then sold it to go towards refitting my founders atlas. first time ever in a raven.

the reason I sold it wasn't because it was powerful as all hell, my favorite mech is dual gauss after all. I sold it because i'm really bad with my finances ;_; and will probably buy it back soon if I don't blow all my cbills on some novelty build again.


honestly, if I'm going to be completely serious here, I'm not trying to come up with excuses for losing. I'm just noting that there's really no reason to pilot a light besides the 3L unless you're sentimental. That goes for the cicada too... unless of course you want an ecm gauss sniper or something. that's.. hmm now there's an idea

I get that last point (though there are arguments for the Jenners at the highest tier), the reason I was asking about your light piloting is that if that was your first light piloting under the new Elo system, you will have had a 'new player' level Elo (1300 IIRC) and ergo likely been matched up against, well, new pilots. Their accuracy may well therefore not have been exactly high calibre.

Not refuting the overall issue some people do appear to be having (it's frequently cogent enough I don't put it down to QQ), but the 'I bought a Raven and didn't die for a few hours' test does have that as a complicating factor, especially if you're used to a higher level of play.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Gaan Cathal, on 23 February 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

I get that last point (though there are arguments for the Jenners at the highest tier), the reason I was asking about your light piloting is that if that was your first light piloting under the new Elo system, you will have had a 'new player' level Elo (1300 IIRC) and ergo likely been matched up against, well, new pilots. Their accuracy may well therefore not have been exactly high calibre.

Not refuting the overall issue some people do appear to be having (it's frequently cogent enough I don't put it down to QQ), but the 'I bought a Raven and didn't die for a few hours' test does have that as a complicating factor, especially if you're used to a higher level of play.

as far as a jenner goes, I happen to know a really good one that i play with regularly.

biggest issue is when i drive my dual gauss cata, and i make direct hits for no damage, but shoot nothing and make headshots. or hit a raven 3x for over 90 damage, see component flash but no color change. commandos and spiders come in a close second for this kind of frustration, but usually if a shot connects with a commando, spider, jenner, or cicada its a death sentence.

i especially like how commandos explode when you hit them too hard, their limbs just fly right off lol

also, I think i need to build one of these.

I call it the urban ninja. only thing that could make it better is stealth armor.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...338e5be5744c7c7

Edited by Battlecruiser, 23 February 2013 - 09:57 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Battlecruiser, on 23 February 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

biggest issue is when i drive my dual gauss cata, and i make direct hits for no damage, but shoot nothing and make headshots. or hit a raven 3x for over 90 damage, see component flash but no color change. commandos and spiders come in a close second for this kind of frustration, but usually if a shot connects with a commando, spider, jenner, or cicada its a death sentence.

If it's primarily the dual-gauss setup, I'm willing to bet it's convergence screwing you over. The Raven's tall, spindly profile makes it particularly prone to that (followed by the Jenner, then Spider, then Commando for the lights). Just hope they fix the design error there, I guess.

Battlecruiser, on 23 February 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

also, I think i need to build one of these.
I call it the urban ninja. only thing that could make it better is stealth armor.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...338e5be5744c7c7

It's a (cloaky) turret!

[Zordicron]

Lights arent really an issue, it's just ravens.

Tonight I was in a match on the forest colony, conquest. I have been playing my Wang all weekend with this C-bill bonus thing, so AC20 and two med lasers.

There was one raven on the opposing side. And a jenner. The two started out working as a team, and found me and my Wang, and a pult, fract, and a hunchie sort of "one mound back" in the hills from our fatlas(who was LRM at the oppositions pult and stalker down in the water area)
Anyway, they started harrassing us, run throughs, circle around the hills for cover, you know normal stuff.

On the second go round for the raven, I shot it RIGHT IN THE POINTY FACE with my AC20. I know I got it, because it's pointy face turned orange. I got it some with the med lasers too, but only as it ran by so I didnt expect much from that.

Now, I didnt expect it to crumple and die from one shot, even AC20. It circled around and dropped off and ran under that tube/bridge thing with the little stream, circled way up around to throw a shot or two at our fatlas a few hills over. At this time, the Jenner ate it from some mixed weapon fire, a few lasers, missles, whatever my mid-weight team mates were packing. i didnt actually hit the jenner, I was trying to track that raven.

So, After moving one hill over now, as my small group of mid-weights had advanced a hill towards the fatlas after the jenner went down, the raven gets gutsy again, and runs straight on through our group, taking fire. I know it got at least a laser in the side and a missle in the back that i saw(plus it had the heat marks as it ran towards me) So i opened with med laser, hit it a little off target(side torso, maybe arm to hard to tell on those things) and then NAILED IT IN THE POINTY FACE AGAIN with AC20.

The thing just ran away.

At the end of the match I was spectating(got KO'd along with my hunchie team mate trying to take down enemy Atlas) and we ended up losing by cap points. The last team mate I was watching through, happened to come to a stop right behind that damn raven, after hitting it in the back with a large pulse laser. I saw the targeting hud, that raven was orange all over, but no componant destruction, not even armor stripped.

So, while I find the design and balance of lights to be spot on in general, there is something freegin wrong with ravens right now. i have seen the other lights take the expected POW DEAD hits all weekend so far(man I played a ot of matches today) I even headshot a trollmando at point blank with my Wang earlier this evening-even Cicadas fall to an atlas balistic alpha to the back, the ravens run around with the ability to soak damage like a heavy.

As to what is actually wrong? i got no idea, could be anything.

[Zakie Chan]

My YLW hits for full damage reliably. There are times the physical shot connects but the crosshair doesn't go red (ie: I missed).

Constant ping of 50 and aiming low to reduce the convergence to torso distance are the big factors in getting the larger portion of my shots to connect.

I've surprised many a light with ac20s to the legs.


The current lagshield is small and if your ping and fps is stable then extremely manageable. Learn the lead distance to get the red crosshair hit indication and then profit. Mechs no longer rubber band, which was the root of the lagshield evil.


EDIT:: To the above YLW user, always trust the crosshair. If you have not yet, learn the convergence to infinity profiles and how mechs crossing left to right or viceversa affect trajectory. Its frustrating when you see the round physically land and score no damage, but if its not a red crosshair, you didnt hit. Lead a bit more and try again.

Edited by Zakie Chan, 23 February 2013 - 10:15 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

If it makes you feel any better, OP, I noticed the missing damage issue on a couple mechs, not just the Raven. Specifically, I encounter it most on the Raven, Atlas, and Centurion. I have smacked stationary Ravens with three ERPPC only to see their already exposed side torso go from yellow to a slightly darker shade of yellow. I have planted two gauss slugs into a red armored CT atlas in a staring contest with me, and seen zero damage registration on impact. I have seen effects on the Centurion, where I need to lead even more than when I am shooting at a 140+ KPH light mech just to hit the torso segment I want.

I honestly believe there are some hitbox detection issues still in the game because I experience them regularly. The odd thing is it is hard to reproduce. One game you can nail everything you aim for, another it is like you are shooting ping pong balls at people. This is with a steady 93 ms ping, by the way. If it fluctuates at all, it never gets worse then 105 ms.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 23 February 2013 - 10:15 PM.

[Hastega]

Eldagore, on 23 February 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

I shot it RIGHT IN THE POINTY FACE with my AC20.

The pointy face of a raven isn't actually the head, it's the center torso, which can absorb two AC20 shots and still have armor left. Headshotting a raven is damn near impossible because it has one of the tiniest heads in the game (though I've still had it happen). Another thing to note that is the effective range on weapons is where they'll do the most damage, firing your weapons at suboptimal ranges isn't going to be as destructive as you're expecting. A Raven can have 44 center torso armor compared to an Atlas with 124, they aren't THAT squishy.

[Zaptruder]

Hastega, on 23 February 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

As another poster stated in a similar thread, anyone who thinks Lights are invincible is using Lasers or SRMs. I've been one-shot by AC20s, critically beaten by tagged LRM strikes, torso sniped by quad PPCs, or blasted to smithereens by UACs. The high speed of lights coupled with normal lag makes them hard to track, but ballistics and lockons have no problems in landing blows. If lights were as invincible as people think, light vs light battles with medium pulse lasers would never end, but they do. It's the guys using medium lasers and doing little to no steady damage on components that can't score a kill. SRMs will even miss the target entirely, a batch of 6 rockets might have a 50% accuracy without an Artemis system, yet my SSRM2s annihilate lights.

TL:DR - You missed.

The crux of the problem is that you think you hit when you missed. Lasers provide false feedback for leading. Generally players have to look in two places at once to get the feedback they need; if visual damage only occurred when the server registered a hit, then lights would be imminently more trackable with lasers.

It gets especially difficult for international players where the leadtime can be unpredictable and jittery; it just becomes a crapshoot at some point.

[Gaan Cathal]

Eldagore, on 23 February 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

On the second go round for the raven, I shot it RIGHT IN THE POINTY FACE with my AC20
......

NAILED IT IN THE POINTY FACE AGAIN with AC20.

With the way the component hitboxes are aligned on the Raven, it is very, very easy to hit the LT or RT rather than the CT, thus even if you nailed it right in the pointy bit twice, you could easily have nailed it once in the CT and once in the LT (with the AC/20 being on your right arm and all). This is a particularly problems for mechs with guns a certain height, because the LT/RT front border is further forward on the bottom of the Raven than the top. That is to say, if you consider the 'nose' a hexagon from the front, the bottom two 'side' pieces of nose are actually side torso, the rest is centre. Ergo two nose-shots are not necessarily two CT-shots. When convergence issues play into this, it gets even more wobbly.

Solution? Until they fix convergence I don't know what, other than shoot the legs instead. We hate that, actually.

Pariah Devalis, on 23 February 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

I honestly believe there are some hitbox detection issues still in the game because I experience them regularly. The odd thing is it is hard to reproduce. One game you can nail everything you aim for, another it is like you are shooting ping pong balls at people. This is with a steady 93 ms ping, by the way. If it fluctuates at all, it never gets worse then 105 ms.

The more I play, and the more of these threads (the ones with cogent posts in, not WHAAOMGSOOPECMDEFLECTSBULLETS ones) I read, the more I am becoming convinced convergence is the root of the problem here.

[Zordicron]

Too the few that replied to my post...

I understand about the CT, LT, RT dmg thing. I know that it is easily possibly my 2 AC20 shots did not strike the same area.
As for aiming, well, I know the round hit, and registered, because the highly visible "orange splat" showed up both times.

Really, the point of my post was not "omg, the raven didnt get oneshot pwnzd" but more the raven soaked:
2 AC20 rounds to torso
multiple (2) med laser blasts to torso(s)
multiple laser blasts from team mates
several missile hits, at least 3 rounds that i saw myself
at least 4 large **** laser blasts to the torso i witnessed at the very end of the round

End result: orange body panels damage, and raven was one of two enemy mechs left alive at end of round.

is it possible the damage spread just absolutley perfectly the whole match, and that a raven can absorb that much dmg? I dont know, but it REALLY feels imbalanced when compared to the thickness of the hide on my centurions or even cataphracts.

That is not to say I disapprove of variance in mech designs, in fact I favor it. it is nice to see the difference in tactics/aim needed when facing say, a Stalker vs an Awesome. that can translate to Raven vs jenner for example, but right now, Ravens can "luck out"(if that is really all it is) and distribute dmg so well that they are durable like a heavy should be.

Like a lot of things on the net, there is no proof of sorts I can display other then anecdotal, and of course it may all be as intended by the dev team. IMO, if there really is no wierd bug going on, then I think there should be some hitbox adjustments made to that chassis. I wonder if they could datamine component destruction on ravens. I bet it would show disproportionate compared to other lights, some of which should be allowed due to chassis design- but right now it feels a tad over the top.

[MayGay]

Battlecruiser, on 23 February 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

honestly, if I'm going to be completely serious here, I'm not trying to come up with excuses for losing. I'm just noting that there's really no reason to pilot a light besides the 3L unless you're sentimental. That goes for the cicada too... unless of course you want an ecm gauss sniper or something. that's.. hmm now there's an idea

I have oodles of fun, and success in my Spider 5D including 600+ damage matches with 3 mlasers, and I'm seriously considering rebuying a Jenner, either a 7D or 7F, either will do, as I have had success in the designs before and I am a much better player now than I was when I had one, but don't get me wrong I had a lot of fun in a 3L, even BEFORE ECM worked, pop an LRM 20 in the arm hardpoint for lolz

Edited by James Griffin, 24 February 2013 - 09:32 AM.

[ChrisOrange]

Spitz, on 23 February 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

They should pulled the raven the first patch they put it in and kept it out until they could fix the problems. Same with other light mechs that are completely off scale.

You assume PGI has shame or a sense of responsibility lol.

At any rate I don't notice any lag shield when I face ravens...the main problem is that they don't knock like they WILL when it's patched in.