41 replies to this topic

[Pihoqahiak]

DeadlyNerd, on 23 February 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

Hopefully PGI will take note of which mech variants are most played in order to take action and bring them more in line with other variants.
This tournament was the best possible way of making people play the most cheesiest builds without actually telling them to do so.

Unfortunately, it will only be able to provide a small amount of useful data about that, since the vast majority of players are not playing as team oriented at all during this tournament. Personal stats are what matter most for the tourney score so that's what most players are focused on, not team synergy and winning as much as what they normally would.

[valkyrie]

Deathlike, on 24 February 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

LRMs are not the problem. What's happened is that the cheese builds are used in force and are generally just effective.

Once the weekend is over, the cheese-to-abuse ratio will be back to its norms... right now is not that time.

And what makes you think that? The reason they're "cheese" is because they're far more efficient than anything else one could field. It's minimal risk, maximum reward. If anything, CheeseMechs are going to become MORE prominent now that people are getting used to reaping their benefits and newbies who picked this of all weekends to start will be looking to build a 'Mech identical to the ones that walked all over them all weekend.

[GalaxyBluestar]

valkyrie, on 24 February 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

Yeah, but as long as there's stuff like Splatcats out and about, there is no "duking it out." There's just horrible, terrifying, swift, confusing death.

Which has NEVER been what MechWarrior has been about, I may add. Unless you count MW4 multiplayer, and I certainly do not.

kong.... stopped reading it there.

[Rift Hawk]

valkyrie, on 24 February 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

And what makes you think that? The reason they're "cheese" is because they're far more efficient than anything else one could field. It's minimal risk, maximum reward. If anything, CheeseMechs are going to become MORE prominent now that people are getting used to reaping their benefits and newbies who picked this of all weekends to start will be looking to build a 'Mech identical to the ones that walked all over them all weekend.

Since your throwing the title of "cheese" around, perhaps you should look at all the SRM boating catapults or the PPC boating assault and heavies before we start bashing down LRMs. LRMs at least take time to reach the target. Not to mention with ECM being so prominent, one almost certainly have to position themselves somewhere they can use a TAG. They are far less "cheese" than the other mechs I just listed.

[valkyrie]

Imperial X, on 24 February 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

Since your throwing the title of "cheese" around, perhaps you should look at all the SRM boating catapults or the PPC boating assault and heavies before we start bashing down LRMs. LRMs at least take time to reach the target. Not to mention with ECM being so prominent, one almost certainly have to position themselves somewhere they can use a TAG. They are far less "cheese" than the other mechs I just listed.

Oh no, I'm not too concerned about LRMs, even though ECM as a metagame counter is like choosing what hole you want to take it in. I'm just referring to cheese builds in general, especially the Splatcat.

GalaxyBluestar, on 24 February 2013 - 12:24 AM, said:

kong.... stopped reading it there.

Love you too. <3

And of course you stopped reading there. It's at the end of my post.

Edited by valkyrie, 24 February 2013 - 12:37 AM.

[Kaspirikay]

Ecm isnt a problem when im in my raven 3L

[valkyrie]

Kaspirikay, on 24 February 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

Ecm isnt a problem when im in my raven 3L

That's because you're part of the problem.

[Hawks]

I've thoroughly enjoyed devouring all kinds of cheese in my Founders Atlas. Splatcats, PPC Stalkers, LRM boats...OM NOM NOM.

[DegeneratePervert]

This may be kinda tinfoil-hat-ish, but I wonder if maybe PGI will take the data from the top builds used in the tourney (obv Splatcats, DDCs, and 3Ls) and nerf the builds. It seems like a good way to do it.

[Vapor Trail]

I had a thought while reading this. People always say "shoot the ears of the Splatcat at range."

Ok... to be able to do that, you have to be able to see the damn things far enough away that you can actually rip the ears off before it gets close enough to rip all your armor off.

To see the damn things that far away, you can't be behind cover. So you're easy pickings for LRM boats. If you take cover from the LRMs, the SRM boats scuttle out like lethal cockroaches and are suddenly in your face and half the time by the time you know they're there, you're missing half your armor.

A 65 ton mech that carries an alpha that outstrips Assault mechs (it's 50% higher than the 6PPC Stalker, and the only limitation is the shorter range), and at the same time carries a big enough engine that it can keep up with most medium mechs? That's beyond Cheddar and is running headlong toward Limberger

[MGoo]

I really wanted to grind up cash with my ilya this weekend, after a very rough 4 hours of playing i gave up on friday and have not played since, the sheer cheese couples with the facehumping and FF in the mad dash to score points for the tourney has made MWO the worst i have ever seen.
I dont have a problem with most of the cheesy builds (except the raven) during normal play, but the sheer volume of them combined with alot of asshats has really made it suck.
Im not in the tourney, i dont have a particular interest in it i just wanted to grind, but man

i usually dont bother to post QQ but, its just such a shame that the tourney is at the same time as a CBILLbonus.

[Rift Hawk]

Vapor Trail, on 24 February 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

I had a thought while reading this. People always say "shoot the ears of the Splatcat at range."

Ok... to be able to do that, you have to be able to see the damn things far enough away that you can actually rip the ears off before it gets close enough to rip all your armor off.

To see the damn things that far away, you can't be behind cover. So you're easy pickings for LRM boats. If you take cover from the LRMs, the SRM boats scuttle out like lethal cockroaches and are suddenly in your face and half the time by the time you know they're there, you're missing half your armor.

A 65 ton mech that carries an alpha that outstrips Assault mechs (it's 50% higher than the 6PPC Stalker, and the only limitation is the shorter range), and at the same time carries a big enough engine that it can keep up with most medium mechs? That's beyond Cheddar and is running headlong toward Limberger

Dont forget the almost 180 degree turn radius of the upper torso.

MGoo, on 24 February 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

I really wanted to grind up cash with my ilya this weekend, after a very rough 4 hours of playing i gave up on friday and have not played since, the sheer cheese couples with the facehumping and FF in the mad dash to score points for the tourney has made MWO the worst i have ever seen.
I dont have a problem with most of the cheesy builds (except the raven) during normal play, but the sheer volume of them combined with alot of asshats has really made it suck.
Im not in the tourney, i dont have a particular interest in it i just wanted to grind, but man

i usually dont bother to post QQ but, its just such a shame that the tourney is at the same time as a CBILLbonus.

I really havent noticed a lot of cheese builds during the tournament. Sure there are more than normal I suppose but it just hasn't seemed to me that there is an overwhelming amount.

[Vapor Trail]

It's fast enough on the turn (even before looking at the fact it jumps) that it hardly needs it. Granted, both of those add that little extra flavor (like buying smoked provolone rather than the plain kind).

[GhostFacedNinja]

I think the solution is obvious. Make all mechs exactly the same. Arm them all with non-offensive weapons. Ban all LRMs, SRMs, SSRMS, PPCs, allow no more than one GC or AC20 per team. Medium lasers are bit fiercely efficient, better nerf them. In fact, lets remove all weapons, bring back collisions and ram each other to death?

On a serious note. There will always be better and worse builds as long as there is choice. There will always be min/maxing. As it stands, splatcats are so ridiculously easy to counter I really don't see the problem. If I get killed by LRMs, I regard that as my failure to properly use cover.

[MayGay]

my stalker still kicks the most *** and it the only thing I`ve seen that is close had an XL engine and was slower but had 2 srm 4 instead of 4 srm4, likely sunk less heat too

[WalkingDeathBot]

GhostFacedNinja, on 24 February 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

I think the solution is obvious. Make all mechs exactly the same. Arm them all with non-offensive weapons. Ban all LRMs, SRMs, SSRMS, PPCs, allow no more than one GC or AC20 per team. Medium lasers are bit fiercely efficient, better nerf them. In fact, lets remove all weapons, bring back collisions and ram each other to death?

On a serious note. There will always be better and worse builds as long as there is choice. There will always be min/maxing. As it stands, splatcats are so ridiculously easy to counter I really don't see the problem. If I get killed by LRMs, I regard that as my failure to properly use cover.

Well said sir. Well said. I've actually had a lot MORE fun playing this weekend. People are playing smart and having fun.

[Rift Hawk]

GhostFacedNinja, on 24 February 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

I think the solution is obvious. Make all mechs exactly the same. Arm them all with non-offensive weapons. Ban all LRMs, SRMs, SSRMS, PPCs, allow no more than one GC or AC20 per team. Medium lasers are bit fiercely efficient, better nerf them. In fact, lets remove all weapons, bring back collisions and ram each other to death?

On a serious note. There will always be better and worse builds as long as there is choice. There will always be min/maxing. As it stands, splatcats are so ridiculously easy to counter I really don't see the problem. If I get killed by LRMs, I regard that as my failure to properly use cover.

Your right there will always be builds that are better. I think the point is, those builds would be a lot more in line with other builds if they couldn't load up 6 of the most powerful weapons in the game at the same time.

Its one thing to have 4 medium lasers and 2 SRM6s on your 4SP. Its another to have 6 SRM6s on a heavy that has more armor, Jump jets, A better turn radius, goes just about as fast as you do in your 4SP, and can crit or rip off all your guns in one shot.

Edited by Imperial X, 24 February 2013 - 01:07 AM.

[Deathlike]

valkyrie, on 24 February 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

And what makes you think that? The reason they're "cheese" is because they're far more efficient than anything else one could field. It's minimal risk, maximum reward. If anything, CheeseMechs are going to become MORE prominent now that people are getting used to reaping their benefits and newbies who picked this of all weekends to start will be looking to build a 'Mech identical to the ones that walked all over them all weekend.

You're misunderstanding me. In this current tourney, you are actually hurting your chances of winning to NOT use the cheese builds. That's the incentive. It's kinda like the signal-to-noise ratio when a new patch is coming out. You see tons of people using the new mech that just came out (in this instance, the Trebuchet). Eventually, this will level off as people figure out if it works out for them. In this example, the tourney is LITERALLY changing the dynamics of what is being put out there. It doesn't mean cheese builds suddenly go away... they just won't be adding themselves as much to every random match at the same rate because of the tourney.

[Hawks]

I might try building a SRM Cat just to see what all the fuss is about...

[GhostFacedNinja]

WalkingDeathBot, on 24 February 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

Well said sir. Well said. I've actually had a lot MORE fun playing this weekend. People are playing smart and having fun.

Same! People actually piloting properly.. I've been having some great fights, ones that if I win, I feel a sense of accomplishment rather than scorn.

As for the person complaining about not having a great time against a good, well built heavy mech whilst piloting a medium? Really?