18 replies to this topic

[TwigTech]

So currently an AC/20 weighs 14 tons and eats up 10 slots. A heavy cost for a heavy weapon. I'm fine with this, but my concern lies with the AC/20's ammo. At 7 rounds per ton, it seems like the AC/20 eats up too much cumulative space and tonnage just to make it into a working firearm. If I want to have 28 rounds (which I usually use up in a lengty match), I have to carry around a combined total of 18 tons and 14 slots to use that one weapon.

What I'd suggest is a slight increase in AC/20 ammo, such as 9 rounds per ton, to help alleviate the weight cost and make the weapon more viable for the medium weight mechs meant to use it, such as the Yen Lo and Hunchback.

Does this sound like a good suggestion? What are your thoughts?

[Skadi]

it balances the weight of the 20, it actualy weighs less than a gauss and hits harder, at the cost of less ammo per ton.

[kiltymonroe]

Skadi, on 24 February 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

it balances the weight of the 20, it actualy weighs less than a gauss and hits harder, at the cost of less ammo per ton.

And the cost of greatly reduced range, don't forget.

8 shots/ton is probably fair.

edit: Also heat.

Edited by kiltymonroe, 24 February 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[TwigTech]

Skadi, on 24 February 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

it balances the weight of the 20, it actualy weighs less than a gauss and hits harder, at the cost of less ammo per ton.

Well yes, but as Kiltymonroe pointed out, the Gauss also has a significant range advantage. It's more fragile, but it also consumes significantly fewer slots by comparison. For 10 slots you can fit a Gauss with 30 rounds of ammunition, whereas for a comparable amount of ammo in an AC/20 you'd have to take up 14 slots, and even then you're 2 rounds short on ammunition. However, they're both very niche roles and I don't think directly comparing them helps much.

The root of my suggestion stems from the fact that certain medium mechs are clearly built around the AC/20, yet they don't have the appropriate tonnage to handle an AC/20, secondary weapons, ammunition and engine size. One ton could make or break a medium mech in some cases, and right now it seems like the AC/20 is more of a detriment in its current size / weight than a genuinely formidable weapon.

[RLBell]

The shots for ballistics weapons is 150pts, divided by damage. The UAC and LB weapons are slightly less. The AC/20 loses out, because 20 goes into 150 seven and a half times, so an extra shot for every two tons would be a balance.

The AC/20 has always been hard to use. By allowing weapons to fire out past normal effective range, the MWO AC/20 is already a much more useful beast than the TT version.

What is out of line is the LRM damage points per ton which is (IIRC) 304. The broken aspect of LRM's in MWO is that they not only do more damage than LRM's in TT, but they also have 50% more shots per ton.

[Dueliest]

Though I don't really have a problem with AC/20 atm, 8 shots seems reasonable. I always wondered why it took a penalty to total damage per ton 7*20=140 vs the standard 150 of all other ammo types.

[PhoenixFire55]

Amounts of ammo for ballistic weapons are fine right now I think. They might not make any sense if you actually think about it, but they are fine in terms of game balance.

Can't understand why you need more slugs of AC-20 per ton really. On YLW / Hunch your point is to get behind a heavy / assault and 2-3 shot them through the rear armor. You only need 1 ton to kill 1-2 mechs. On Atlas you can put enough ammo anyway.

[Stringburka]

RLBell, on 24 February 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

What is out of line is the LRM damage points per ton which is (IIRC) 304. The broken aspect of LRM's in MWO is that they not only do more damage than LRM's in TT, but they also have 50% more shots per ton.

Agreed on this. It's actually 324 damage I think (1.8*180) but agreed. SRM is 250 damage per ton.

Edited by Stringburka, 25 February 2013 - 06:18 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Stringburka, on 25 February 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

Agreed on this. It's actually 324 damage I think (1.8*180) but agreed. SRM is 250 damage per ton.

I agree also, but thats a little bit off topic.

[Spirit of the Wolf]

Honestly, despite the fact that I almost never use the AC/20, (I just hate the idea of missing with a weapon and wasting that enormous damage, and the fact that I regularly try to kill lights), I agree that it should get an ammo-per-ton buff.
I remember when it used to be only 6 per ton, and that was horrid.

Anyways, I think it should be something along the lines of:
"If you have 2 tons (or a multiple thereof) of ac/20 ammo in one section of a mech, it gets an additional 1 shot per 2 tons of ammunition, as the two ammo bins can be expanded into one larger ammo bin which can, collectively, accommodate another shot."

I know that's more than a bit 'meta', but if it works, it works.

[Stringburka]

To some degree, I honestly think it's an issue with all ballistics except the UAC and gauss. The reason why people note it on the AC-20 is because it's the one most people want to use. The AC-10 and 5 are used so rarely people don't even complain about it.

[Kargarok]

While I would love more space on my Wang for other toys, I feel the AC20 is pretty close to where it wants to be. I rarely run out of ammo and often do pretty well.

[Jack Spade Ward]

7 ammo is canon, so it should remain as such

[Stringburka]

Spadejack, on 25 February 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

7 ammo is canon, so it should remain as such

According to Sarna, 5 ammo per ton is canon. link.

A lot of ammo values have changed from canon in MWO, and a fair amount of heat values too. It seems PGI are pretty willing to change those from canon.

[Mechteric]

Stringburka, on 25 February 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

According to Sarna, 5 ammo per ton is canon. link.

A lot of ammo values have changed from canon in MWO, and a fair amount of heat values too. It seems PGI are pretty willing to change those from canon.

since armor values are double though, the per ton amount should be doubled as well, or at least nearly so. I definitely liked it when they went from 6 to 7, but I too feel that it should be 8.

[Stringburka]

CapperDeluxe, on 25 February 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

since armor values are double though, the per ton amount should be doubled as well, or at least nearly so. I definitely liked it when they went from 6 to 7, but I too feel that it should be 8.

I think that could work and balance well. Doubled canon ammo, standard canon damage (missiles are currently increased by 80% and 25% respectively), adjusted rate of fire to fine tune.

[C4RNAGE]

lets go forward with this problem
i see solution simple the TT MECH has been made simple as possible
but now we got computer power so let use it

Don't count 1 ton of ammo contains 7 shots

Let be 7 shot has mass 1 ton

This means"if i need 5 shots and computer will count whats the mass for it,
like with armor its done simple and works perfect

[Bobzilla]

If you look at it by how long the weapon would last if it fired continuosly 1 ton of ammo, it would also go empty only 0.5 seconds after the UAC/5. Makes sense as that weapon will only have done 125 dmg. But every other balistic weapon would not only last longer per ton of ammo but also do more damage per ton of ammo. Not counting machine guns.

If it has 8 per ton it tops the list. They are all pretty close, so 7.5 would be money, but you gotta round one way or the other.

[sycocys]

If they ever fix damage transfer 1 ton of ammo with focused shooting on a ct (front or back) or legs = less than 1 ton per kill, much less if you add in lasers to boost damage during reloads.

If you can get convergence to play along with you, and brawl for only head shots, you could put up 7 kills per ton with ac 20 + laser fire.

To me I guess when it's not doing splash damage to every part of the opponent mech, 7 shots a ton from an ac20 is fearsome.