419 replies to this topic

[Vermaxx]

Tarman, on 25 February 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

A smart Splatter isn't attacking in a paper-duel vacuum. He's using ECM bubbles and cover and his teammates to screen him till he can drive up your 5-to-7 and blow you open or peel off your kit while you're busy with an Atlas in your face. Good Splats don't work alone. 1v1 they are dangerous but their real power comes from being part of a unit where you may not have the luxury of focusing it down.

Aaaand we're back to calling things overpowered when they only shine with teamwork.

Like the SSRM system. I swear I'm buying an A1 again.

[Garfuncle]

This thread is pretty much done with nobody capable of reading the initial post and instead are mindlessly posting about how to fight Splats. The topic was never that. It's their gameplay that's the topic, and how it is not good design.

But by all means, proceed brainlessly.

[silentD11]

Serapth, on 25 February 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

The other obnoxious cheese mech in question was the Streakcat, and frankly, now that it doesnt shake your screen like mad and hit 100% center torso coupled with the fact it takes > 1 JJ to jump now, the streakcat would be easier to deal with than Splatcats.

Especially if you were able to hit the ******** with LRMs before they close to < 200m.

ECM killed the one good viable counter to Splat/Streak|cats, LRMs. NERF ECM so it only works in a 200m bubble and the worlds a better place.

LRMS were also idiotic and moronic and completely un-fun to play with or against, so they need to be reined in as well. And you can still tag your LRMs in and other things. It just now takes a minimal amount of teamwork and effort.... which I guess teamwork and effort takes out the reason most people use LRMs, but oh well.

[FupDup]

If there were more than ~3-4 competitive "cheese" builds, then it wouldn't make nearly as much of an impact as they do now (especially because we have so few mechs right now). Note that this is coming from someone who pilots a Raven 3L almost exclusively (if other mechs got some love, maybe there would be a good enough reason to try them out. The other Raven variants certainly need some TLC).

Any time you boil down a game to a number of "viable" builds that can be counted on one hand, it can get pretty boring pretty fast (i.e. MW4 being infested with PPC/Gauss Gladiators + Black Knights poptarting all day long, while rebels like me would grab a 4-RL Commando or 2-HRL Owens to mix things up).

Edited by FupDup, 25 February 2013 - 11:55 AM.

[Tarman]

Vermaxx, on 25 February 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Aaaand we're back to calling things overpowered when they only shine with teamwork.

Like the SSRM system. I swear I'm buying an A1 again.

That's the truth, not griping. Buddy asked how they could be a real threat with all their limitations, and running them in a team that can support it does make them much more dangerous than their paper stats would suggest. I'm saying it's powerful but not to the point it needs to be nerfed. I hate dying to them because it sucks but they have enough weaknesses both in playstyle and ingame countering that they don't need any programming tweaks.

[roguetrdr]

Garfuncle, on 25 February 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

This thread is pretty much done with nobody capable of reading the initial post and instead are mindlessly posting about how to fight Splats. The topic was never that. It's their gameplay that's the topic, and how it is not good design.

But by all means, proceed brainlessly.

I get your OP. You're upset because other people play the game differently to you and you can't accept that. It still astounds me (though it shouldn't) that people get so worked up about how other players are 'ruining the game' by using game mechanics, and that some builds are 'cheese' because they are popular and effective. It's human nature to seek every possible edge when in a fight, it's called a survival instinct. It is a rare individual that will purposely hamstring themselves before walking into combat, and I would argue they are not a rational person.

[Royalewithcheese]

Garfuncle, on 25 February 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

This thread is pretty much done with nobody capable of reading the initial post and instead are mindlessly posting about how to fight Splats. The topic was never that. It's their gameplay that's the topic, and how it is not good design.

But by all means, proceed brainlessly.

I dunno, man, if you're not having fun fighting splats because they keep killing you quickly, maybe tactics people use to beat them could be helpful?

[PropagandaWar]

Threads not done. Honestly they get me if I dont see them and Im a medium pilot. But when I do and I try really hard to keep an eye on the battlefield I do everything to keep 100+ meters on them.

[Suki]

Vermaxx, on 25 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Twin Gauss K2 is overpowered.

Small Laser Hunch is overpowered.

Small Laser Jenner is overpowered.

MEDIUM LASER (both above) is overpowered.

SSRM is overpowered.

SRM is overpowered.


The ^&$*ING radar lets you know what a mech is carrying before you charge it. USE IT, stop charging Missile Box Eared Cats before figuring out what is in them.

Little hint - almost everything in the game lets you sit outside an SRM's good cone range and blow it apart.

To use this people had to LEARN to use "R" button, they just don't do it, don't hold the target to the teammates to see dangerous splatcats to focuse fire on it. And after they cry here on forum/.

[topgun505]

While I don't necessarily disagree with the IP regarding the splats, I think this situation will straighten itself out with the introduction of more large open maps like Alpine. Splats are utterly worthless on that map and will likely be so in future large maps. Once we have half a dozen or so large maps people will stop taking short-range-exclusuve mechs once the probability of getting a large map gets up to I'd say 33% or greater

[Garfuncle]

Quote

some builds are 'cheese' because they are popular and effective. It's human nature to seek every possible edge when in a fight, it's called a survival instinct. It is a rare individual that will purposely hamstring themselves before walking into combat, and I would argue they are not a rational person.

But this is a game, so none of that "survival edge" stuff matters because it is well, delusional. As a game, cheese builds and cheese tactics are detrimental to the experience of most players because they ignore the primary elements of the game, tactics, heat/ammo management, aim, positioning, and teamwork in favor of a gimmicky build that doesn't need any of that to operate. That's why it kills fun, because it steps over the core of the game. It's bad design.

[DocBach]

Garfuncle, on 25 February 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

The problem with cheese, primarily the splatcat, is that it kills the fun of the game. Forget good aim, concentrating fire with teammates, managing laser and ballistic, heat and ammo...

it's actually a lot harder than it looks.... you have to aim and deal with randomized missile spread, work with your team to not get singled out, manage heat and ammo. also deal with long range guys you can't touch out past 270 meters EXACTLY

[BlueSanta]

A Splat takes a lot of skill to use to the best of its ability. Maybe you should just quit being stupid and learn to identify targets. It's easy to take one out when recognized promptly on the field.

[Alexandrix]

The splatcat alone is bad enough...what's worse is that inevitably his buddies are in an AC20kat,a 3L raven,and whatever other cheese boat 4th they decide to bring

Anyways,on the thread topic.Yea,I totally agree that it just makes the game ******.The best way to "play to win" is straight cheese boating.Let's take a look at some of the current and past "most competitive" builds:

-SRM Cat
-Streak Cat
-Gauss cat
-AC20 cat
-Laserback
-Poptard phract/treb
-any all LRM boat mech of your choosing
-any other number of cheese boats I'm sure im forgetting

What do all of these builds have in common?
They are all high alpha one button wonders.
They all produce positive results with the least amount of effort and require,in most cases,only 1 button to be pressed to win.
This wouldn't be an issue if the hard point system had a size limitation (small/med/large) in addition to the type limitation.It would make the game a lot more diverse and kill out these stupid *** 1 button wonder high alpha mechs.

Edited by Alexandrix, 25 February 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Garfuncle, on 25 February 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

As a game, cheese builds and cheese tactics are detrimental to the experience of most players because they ignore the primary elements of the game, tactics, heat/ammo management, aim, positioning, and teamwork in favor of a gimmicky build that doesn't need any of that to operate. That's why it kills fun, because it steps over the core of the game. It's bad design.

A splatcat that deploys without tactics, heat management, positioning and teamwork is gonna get eared and cored in short order

(Sure, it's gimmicky, but so's the A1 variant in general.)

[Garfuncle]

Quote

Maybe you should just quit being stupid and learn to identify targets. It's easy to take one out when recognized promptly on the field.

Maybe you should quit being blind and actually read the topic and see it's not about fighting them and more about how they effect gameplay in a negative way.

Edited by Garfuncle, 25 February 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[Hedonism Robot]

My pro as heck guide to splatcat. At the start of the match play this song:

Then its time to dunk some mad mech bball!

[Tarman]

Garfuncle, on 25 February 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Maybe you should quit being blind and actual read the topic and see it's not about fighting them and more about how they effect gameplay in a negative way.

Fighting them IS the gameplay. >_________>

And it's currently doable inside the parameters of the game, in various ways. This is not like the confluence of factors that make the 3L a silly build. 3Ls are powerful for reasons that are controlled by direct programming issues like the weird hitboxing and the SSRM magicshot; you can't out-pilot that. Splats are naturally powerful, but have plenty of already existing counters. Like any weapons that shoot past 270m, paying 5 seconds of attention to target data and situation, and calling priority targets.

[Gevurah]

Honestly.... I can totally understand your frustration. Most of the time though, it comes from incompetent teammates who simply have no idea how to deal with said splat-cat.

Example:
One of the games this weekend was frozen city; I was in e5 overwatching the hill. My entire team (read, lemming mode) was behind me, doing... f*** all. No idea, honest. I see a blip on my radar while I'm engaged with people in front of me. I fire at the guys in front of me, assuming it was just some annoying light which was making a break to get back to their lines annnnnnnd dead. Point blank 90 dmg alpha to the back of the neck. Whatever. I was pissed, but mostly at my teammates who let this guy go completely unscathed as he literally walked right through the midst of them and nuked me.

But seriously, it won't matter soon. What we're playing on is mostly small maps. All of the newer maps coming are large scale or gigantic. So we're going to see a significant downplay on that level of build because it simply will be too niche to be effective on a regular basis.

Side note, getting a kill shot on a kamikaze splatcat who is working their a** off to kill you is probably the most satisfying thing in the world TBH

[Ghogiel]

Garfuncle, on 25 February 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Maybe you should quit being blind and actually read the topic and see it's not about fighting them and more about how they effect gameplay in a negative way.

If anything, SRM brawlers are FUN to play in game.

It seems to make people make QQ threads on the forum as well.

Bi-winning, I win here and I win there.