14 replies to this topic

[Jay Raynor]

We've all been there, in a 4 or 8 man...we get bored or ordered into a new mech. We gleefully switch from our Raven 3L to the Atlas DDC. We ready up and go. Only to get into drop and realize we forgot to switch out our modules in the Mech Lab.

Alternately, we do remember...but as we're switching out modules, that one guy in our 8 man is getting pressured to leave.

Let's face it, the module interface in the Mech Lab is kinda clunky for fast switching. What's the point of having the Ready Mechs if I have to go into the MechLab to get their modules swapped around? I get that the end-state desire is having a few of each module. But that's no excuse for clunky UI.

Module switching needs some streamlined UI. When I change Mechs, I'd like them to de-equip...and unless I have more available modules than slots, I don't need to make or see the change. Once I have more module types than slots available, I just need a quick Windows-style multiple-choice check box that lets me quick-pick my modules and go.

Remember, more time dealing with a clunky interface is less time in-game.

[focuspark]

but you didn't forget the ECM module, did ya? <sigh>

[Jay Raynor]

ECM doesn't count, it's part of "Loadout", not "Modules".

[focuspark]

<sigh> you missed my point. Never mind.

[RLBell]

Pay attention to what you load on your mech before you select it. Just be glad it was a module. While pugging last weekend, one guy jumped into a match in a mech stripped of weapons (he had time to type an apology for hiding at the base, and was on my team-- sigh), and I thought I was a fool for jumping in with a 67 ton Stalker (although, with only two ERPPC's and an SRM4, it was really hard to make it overheat, so it did not fare as badly as I thought).

On a different occassion, I only forgot to load ammo for the SRM's I swapped some LRM launchers out to install.

I could have it worse, a friend enhanced his c-bill liquidity by selling things he does not use. As a result, he has more chassis than engines and must take care not to jump into a game in a permanently shutdown mech.

As many of us do not have 4 or 8 man groups to jump with and some of us do not even have unlocked modules, let alone having to face the challenge of picking between the AS7-D-DC and the RVN-3L, be very thankful, considering how munchkin most RVN-3L builds are, that we are civil.

[Jay Raynor]

focuspark, on 25 February 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

<sigh> you missed my point. Never mind.

I'm sorry, you had a point to make? Make it clearly.

RLBell, on 25 February 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Pay attention to what you load on your mech before you select it. Just be glad it was a module. While pugging last weekend, one guy jumped into a match in a mech stripped of weapons (he had time to type an apology for hiding at the base, and was on my team-- sigh), and I thought I was a fool for jumping in with a 67 ton Stalker (although, with only two ERPPC's and an SRM4, it was really hard to make it overheat, so it did not fare as badly as I thought).

On a different occassion, I only forgot to load ammo for the SRM's I swapped some LRM launchers out to install.

I could have it worse, a friend enhanced his c-bill liquidity by selling things he does not use. As a result, he has more chassis than engines and must take care not to jump into a game in a permanently shutdown mech.

As many of us do not have 4 or 8 man groups to jump with and some of us do not even have unlocked modules, let alone having to face the challenge of picking between the AS7-D-DC and the RVN-3L, be very thankful, considering how munchkin most RVN-3L builds are, that we are civil.

So you're being civil that you want to deliberately waste time for module switching because 1) you or your friends ignore giant parts of your loadout, like primary weaponry and engines, of which you'd need to juggle between two or more mechs whenever you switch; 2) you solo-drop, so no one waits on you; and 3) you're bitter about the Mechs I listed as an example and assume I have both? Utilizing passive aggression and calling it civility doesn't make it true.

Let's cut to the chase, why do you want others to muck around in the pre-game interface constantly when they want to simply switch Mechs? Why do you want them to spend their time in menus as opposed to the game?

[Taiga Gunman]

@Jay Raynor
Mmmm.. And who is preventing you from buying all of the necessary modules for each mech to keep them ready-to-battle?

Edited by Taiga Gunman, 26 February 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[sycocys]

Taiga Gunman, on 26 February 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

@Jay Raynor
Mmmm.. And who is preventing you from buying all of the necessary modules for each mech to keep them ready-to-battle?

This is the idea behind the set up. C-bill sink some money into some more modules.

[Jay Raynor]

Taiga Gunman, on 26 February 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

@Jay Raynor
Mmmm.. And who is preventing you from buying all of the necessary modules for each mech to keep them ready-to-battle?

The asinine amount of time it takes to grind up c-bills for that many modules.

sycocys, on 26 February 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

This is the idea behind the set up. C-bill sink some money into some more modules.

Citing "c-bill grinding" as an excuse for clumsy user interface just comes across as petty and vindictive (be this the attitude of PGI or other players).

To be quite honest, having a full Mech "module and equipment load-out" profile which automatically moved equipment to the active Mech is where this game needs to go, given the future Dropship and 12-man modes. Time spent in the user interface is time not spent playing. Doubly insulting is how simple the implementation would be. Couple Smurfy's Mech Lab concept to a full player inventory (both available and equipped).

But just quickly switching modules would be a good start.

[sycocys]

Let's look at this another way.

Free players have 4 mechbays, say you only kept mechs that have 4 module slots. That's end game c-bill grinding of 24 million max (currently) per mech. Total of what 96 million which isn't much if you only use 4 mechs that are outfitted and you are not buying new mechs to fill new bays as well as outfitting them. If you only play 10-15 matches a day or enough to garner 1 million c-bills a day that's just a little over 3 months to have your 4 mechs fully outfitted in free play without premium time.

Now if you play longer on the weekends and build up 12 million on each saturday + sunday combined, you'll have 1 mech done in 2 weeks - 2 weekend days. So 4 mechs with 4 modules outfitted in what 6-7 weeks?

The end game modifications - if you will shouldn't be cheap, or insta-flop around. The idea is for you to be putting them on your final builds and leave them there, with the option to move them about because of limited free mechbay space in case you wish to move onto another set of mechs at some point.

-- Add in premium time and hero bonuses and you start to rapidly cut that time down further.

Edited by sycocys, 26 February 2013 - 05:01 PM.

[Jay Raynor]

That still doesn't excuse a clumsy user interface. What I'm suggesting holds no changes to gameplay balance... just cutting down on time spent in the Mech Lab and not playing the game. The sheer hostility to the idea boggles my mind. Wouldn't you prefer a solution that required less of your time to micromanage?

If you don't like the idea, you wouldn't even have to use it. Just don't save any profiles for any Mech. You can enjoy going into the Mech Lab every time you want to switch Mechs on the Ready List.

In fact, for all you suggesting that I should just grind out for multiple modules, why don't we just take away the player inventory? Yeah. Removing weapons and equipment auto-sells the equipment and you have to buy more. If I shouldn't be able to easily share modules between Mechs, why should I even be able to share any equipment at all between Mechs?

There's a difference between wanting a good experience, and just wanting people to grind or spend extra time just to satisfy egos.

[sycocys]

I don't consider the interface regarding modules clumsy at all, even with 30+ mechs. Sorting through the mechs - can be a bit meh, but that's supposedly coming around shortly. You go in, pull your modules if you don't have spares or the ones you want on x mech, save, go to the mech you are dropping with and put them in. It's a 40-60 second operation even with the loading/saving and searching. All easily done while your clan is sorting out what chassis they want to drop with.
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Personally I don't like the idea of loadout/custom profiles because it kills the only c-bill sinks in the game. Buying mechs (to have alternate load out versions), buying weapons/equipment/modules (to outfit all of your mechs).

You'd only need to purchase the bare minimum of any weapon, ammo, armor, equipment or module to have access to any of it at any time on any of your mechs. What's the point of even earning c-bills at that point? At 2-4 of every weapon, 1 of every module, 30 of each HS, 500 of each armor and 10-15 rounds of each ammo, 1 of each engine and you'd never need to purchase anything again but the next mech chassis. It just doesn't work out as a c-bill sink or an incentive to purchase MC for the bare minimum of additional mechbays.

If you are new, I can understand your point to some extent, but modules are really the endgame type gear of this game. By the time you have several mechs up and rolling your only c-bills will be going into engines, modules, and more mechs. If you stop at 4 mechbays your only c-bill purchases will be in modules and the occasional mech switch, money will stack up fast. On the other hand if you just want to sit on c-bills and swap modules and parts around there should be some incentive to get you to purchase more bays and mechs - in this case it's the hassle of having to swap your modules manually.

[RLBell]

Jay Raynor, on 26 February 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

The asinine amount of time it takes to grind up c-bills for that many modules.



Citing "c-bill grinding" as an excuse for clumsy user interface just comes across as petty and vindictive (be this the attitude of PGI or other players).

To be quite honest, having a full Mech "module and equipment load-out" profile which automatically moved equipment to the active Mech is where this game needs to go, given the future Dropship and 12-man modes. Time spent in the user interface is time not spent playing. Doubly insulting is how simple the implementation would be. Couple Smurfy's Mech Lab concept to a full player inventory (both available and equipped).

But just quickly switching modules would be a good start.

This is not some MMORPG where grinding is watching a progress bar creep across the screen egged on by madly pressing keys. In MWO, grinding equals playing. If you do not find grinding in MWO to be fun, why do you play, at all?

Either time not spent playing is a drag, or grinding is a drag, but never both.

In dropship mode, being limited by what is on the mech as it drops is important. If they were on the first mech, and it got trashed, they cannot magically reappear on a different mech back on the dropship. If you do not want the limited equipment to be potentially lost on the first mech, the first mech must deploy without it.

Something that automagically moved stuff around from inactive mechs to the active mech would work outside of dropship mode, but would have to be disabled for dropship mode, so if PGI hopes to get everybody playing in dropship mode, they have zero incentive to save you from the pregame UI.

[sycocys]

Yet another way to look at it. When you start to become a veteran of the game with somewhere in the range of 3k games played, even if you play a lot of light mechs and get smashed up fast, you can average an overall total somewhere in my range of a measly 100k per match.

Accumulative that equals out to an earning of about 300,000,000. Now if you don't buy 30+ mechs, buy/sell engines and weapons like I have you will have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than enough to outfit every single mech you have with whatever modules you want + have spares to swap in at your whim.

Just saying man, once you get into the game a little ways you will understand both why they are expensive and why you need to manually change them around if you don't want to purchase duplicates.

[Markis Steiner]

Currently I have 2 mechs that share modules, one of those mods is the Target Decay mod. As of right now it takes me no more than 30 seconds to swap the mods between one mech and the other. I am only doing this until I get the C-bills saved up to purchase the mods for the second mech. Right now it is a minor inconvenience that will work itself out in the long run.

I could see this being an issue when you have 4+ mechs sharing the same mods as this would take a lot longer to grind out. In this case I could see a swap button being helpful for a little while, but in the long run you would cancel out the use of the button by buying the mods needed.

I honestly think this will become less of as issue as we get access to a larger range of mods as you are not relying on the same 2-4 mods on every mech.