13 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Right now, the best way to earn XP and C-bills is to do a lot of damage. Unless I'm way mistaken, they've really reduced the bonus for getting kills and kill assists.

Now, I do agree that kill assists shouldn't count for much. To be honest, I just used to paint every enemy target with medium lasers at the start of the match, to ensure I got 8 kill assists and maximum XP. That doesn't seem to work anymore.

But I really feel that the current distribution of XP and C-bills is way off. I haven't really looked closely at the numbers, but I gather that damage is key, at the moment. This is bad for two reasons.

1) It doesn't reward accurate shots. In other words, showering a target with LRMs, LBX10s and SRMs is more profitable than sniping with a gauss or ER PPC.

2) It makes it more valuable to attack big targets than small targets. Now, this is bad for two reasons. First of all, it's yet another reason to play assault rather than a light mech. If you're a light mech, playing Conquest for example, you may spend an entire match locked in a duel against one or two enemy light mechs. You'll do very little damage, as the whole point of the light mech is that they don't have much health, but don't get hit very much. So you'll do something like 150 damage in a match, unless you can finish your target quickly and then join the battle in time to pick off the dying enemies. Second, it makes the game even more predictable than it already is*.

Now, the problem with rewarding kills and component destruction is that some people will just try to steal kills, so they keep their AC20 and SRM loaded untill the target is almost dead, instead of helping to bring it down. And then the guys who did all the work don't get their reward. But really, I don't find that to be a huge problem. It's only a problem in games where there's a dominant win, and players can actually sit back and wait for the kill shot. In an even game, players who wait for kill shots will hurt their team and lose the match.

As a compromise, I propose increasing the reward for kill shots a little bit and, more importantly, giving bigger rewards for component destruction. And perhaps introduce different rewards for different components. Shooting an arm off, small bonus. Shooting a torso off, bigger bonus. Shooting a leg off, biggest bonus. Because mechs tend not to live very long with one leg



I know this has already been discussed in the past, but since the game is constantly changing, the subject is still relevant.

* - The game is made predictable by the fact that small maps reward sticking together instead of spreading out to try different maneuvers, and there are very few different options ("Should we go upper or lower?")

[Vlad Ward]

It's too bad your first, and main, premise is completely negated by the fact that Salvage still exists - otherwise you may have had something resembling a point.

The irony is that you talk about rewarding accuracy in one line and then segue into rewarding ancillary component destruction in the next.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 12 February 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Assists reward flat CBills, they reward XP based on the fraction of total damage done to the mech.
Killshots (more likely with accurate concentrated damage) gives base 50xp+assist value.
Killshots when including 1 component destruction give as many CBills as assists.

If I want more money, I play a mech I can consistently kill people in.

Edited by One Medic Army, 12 February 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

It's too bad your first, and main, premise is completely negated by the fact that Salvage still exists - otherwise you may have had something resembling a point.

The irony is that you talk about rewarding accuracy in one line and then segue into rewarding ancillary component destruction in the next.

The line about "something resembling a point" was a bit harsh there, buddy, but I guess you're trying to help.

To be honest, I'm not sure how salvage works with the latest patch, but isn't the bonus distributed amongst the whole team, instead of the player who did the accurate shooting? I haven't found out where this aspect of the game is explained in detail.

And really, I fail to see the irony, because taking out components is often a good way of taking out an enemy. The quickest may be to just destroy the CT, but right now people are being rewarded for just spraying damage all over the mech. I would rather see my team mates disarm or immobilize my target rather than just distributing their damage evenly.

One Medic Army, on 12 February 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

Assists reward flat CBills, they reward XP based on the fraction of total damage done to the mech.
Killshots (more likely with accurate concentrated damage) gives base 50xp+assist value.
Killshots when including 1 component destruction give as many CBills as assists.
If I want more money, I play a mech I can consistently kill people in.

So do I. And that's my point. If I want to earn a lot of big bucks, I play a heavy or assault. Sometimes I get the same amount of money with a medium mech, but not consistently. And almost never in a light mech. And since C-bills is such an important aspect of the game, it makes it less attractive to be a light pilot. And to hunt light mechs. I'd probably make more money with an LRM20 on my Raven than with lasers and SRMs. (And of course, a 3L with SSRMs and lasers can make a good profit)

[Johnny Reb]

Damage done is the best way to get xp. However, assists get you more c-bills than kills. If you have one long range wep it is pretty easy to hit 5-8 enemies a round to maximize assist c-bill gains. Especially if your a light with one large range wep.

[Vlad Ward]

You can understand my perceived lack of patience, then. Everyone who makes threads like these has absolutely no idea how the current system works. They just ignore the parts they don't quite grasp and complain about one half of a system, claiming it's lacking features of the second half. It's nothing new, and it gets tiring.

Salvage rewards accuracy by paying you for the parts of the Mech that are left intact. Get a clean headshot on a shiny, untouched Gausscat? Bam. Big buckaroonies for you and your team. Yes, Salvage is distributed evenly among your team members, but that's alright. It has the highest potential payout of the various reward schemes, and is the only reward based on relative skill over your opponents.

Likewise, how would you define Accuracy if not as "Killing a Mech cleanly without spraying damage all over 5 different components and knocking off 2 arms, 2 torsos, and a leg"? Component Destruction is a side effect of inaccuracy. You can't reward both and remain consistent.

For future reference, Salvage bonus is calculated at 2% of the purchase value of all undamaged equipment and components of destroyed Enemy Mechs divided evenly among the participants of the winning team.

[Alistair Winter]

Johnny Reb, on 12 February 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

Damage done is the best way to get xp. However, assists get you more c-bills than kills. If you have one long range wep it is pretty easy to hit 5-8 enemies a round to maximize assist c-bill gains. Especially if your a light with one large range wep.

Thanks, will check this out.

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

You can understand my perceived lack of patience, then. Everyone who makes threads like these has absolutely no idea how the current system works. They just ignore the parts they don't quite grasp and complain about one half of a system, claiming it's lacking features of the second half. It's nothing new, and it gets tiring.

I understand. But it would benefit the forum, perhaps yourself, and certainly myself, if you responded in a more light hearted way. Or stay away from threads you find tiring.

Note that the topic was phrased as a question, so I'm more interested in hearing what other people have to say, rather than pushing my own opinion forward. I was just offering my impression as a way to get the discussion started. But I'm really more interested in other people's opinions.

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

Salvage rewards accuracy by paying you for the parts of the Mech that are left intact. Get a clean headshot on a shiny, untouched Gausscat? Bam. Big buckaroonies for you and your team. Yes, Salvage is distributed evenly among your team members, but that's alright. It has the highest potential payout of the various reward schemes, and is the only reward based on relative skill over your opponents.

Thanks for shedding light on that. It strikes me as odd that it's distributed evenly, but fair enough.

EDIT: It makes sense in terms of immersion and the whole mercenary aspect, but PGI already removed repair and rearm costs. Granted, there were many complaints about R&R, but a lot of people did like it simply for the immersion aspect.

Vlad Ward, on 12 February 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

Likewise, how would you define Accuracy if not as "Killing a Mech cleanly without spraying damage all over 5 different components and knocking off 2 arms, 2 torsos, and a leg"? Component Destruction is a side effect of inaccuracy. You can't reward both and remain consistent.

Well, it's just that it's very hard to destroy both arms, torsos and a leg before you take out the CT. It requires that you're able to dish out a lot more damage than is otherwise necessary to take down your target. I don't think this kind of tactic needs to be penalized, because the risk is penalizing in itself.

The time it takes you to actually dish out this kind of damage is probably better spent getting faster kills, and quick kills are certainly safer than leaving your target alive while you either slowly chop off components one by one or, even worse, spray damage over all components.

If you reduce the reward for causing damage, then unskilled players will probably not reap the rewards of their "spray", because chances are high that they will lose any duel where they're unable to get a quick kill, or incapacitate their target. All things being equal, inaccuracy won't be rewarded because unskilled players will never get as far as destroying all those components.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 12 February 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[VikingN1nja]

seems hard to get bills

[Sifright]

In fairness salvage is a good money maker for every one in your team but you can make more if you are incredibly selfish through exploding all the components on enemy mechs. (more money for your self less for your team)

for instance blasting a commando into scrap with an A1 can net you every single component destruction in one salvo as well as the kill (Also called the money shot)

[WhupAzz]

My only problem is with money from salvage.

If i rip an arm off that has 2 AC/5's in it (undamaged) then surely that alone should be 125.000 Cbills x 2 = 250.000 Cbills / By 8 = 31.250 Cbills per person on that alone ... You throw it the 20+ Medium Lasers and your at 131.250 Cbills.

Where is my monies PGI?

Edited by WhupAzz, 02 March 2013 - 06:59 PM.

[JD White]

My quick few cent questions...

Capping, in Conquest.

Should this reward a player more XP or C-Bills? Currently, the only reward for Capping in Conquest, (As Far As I Know, or AFAIK), is winning the match IF your team can not kill all of its opponents. True, we do get a resource bonus, but just what is that based on? With new, larger maps, getting those caps is becoming much more important. I'd rather see a better C-Bill bonus for doing this in Conquest, as its a valid tactic.

Might even start to get people defending Cap points in Conquest at some point... C-bill bonus for that perhaps?

[Mavairo]

I think Capping should give us Cbills particularly in conquest.
5k Cbills per cap I don't think is out of the question.

I think there should be a 15k Cap bonus at the end of Assault if you won by capping as well.

It's true that right now the game rewards brawling, abit too much and as a result it also rewards ''bringing out the Fatties" often times.

I know people will scream "cap rushing zomg''. If you're losing to being cap rushed maybe you should have rethought your defensive or offensive strategy?

And furthermore it still won't stop guys like me from seeing a squad of fatties and go "yeah we're way out tonned here. Let's just wait till they are over extended and cap their base and end this" anyway. Assuming the Fatty pilots aren't complete tards, it can be pretty difficult to undo them in a brawl... (vast understatement) particularly when your team is out tonned by 80 tons or more. Why not give an actual reward for playing to win in that scenario instead of giving more $ to just attempt to brawl and most likely lose? (assuming both teams are roughly even on skill level)

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Here are the remaining changes we need to see:

1 - Increased salvage rewards to make efficient kills more valuable than high damage numbers. If you took half market value of all the salvage, took 10% of that, and divided it among the winning team, you'd probably get a decent reward system out of it.

2 - Give an xp reward for being in a capture box on Conquest mode as a point transitions from red to yellow, and another one for being in the box when it transitions from yellow to blue. Both things are important for victory (uncapping is just as important as capping), and are basically unrewarded aside from generic point rewards that the whole team gets. Also, resources could use a bit more of a bump than they already had.

3 - Give an xp and possibly a c-bill reward for halting an enemy capture on Assault mode. Only grant it once per mech, and have it apply whenever you are in your own base while an enemy is in it too (to prevent the fastest guy from being the only one ever to get the reward).

Aside from these, we basically need to wait for more mechanics to be added so we can get more tactical rewards (issuing orders that are obeyed, obeying orders that are issued, etc.).

[Nostram]

I think too many cbills are being rewarded per match and feel that repair and rearm (adjusted and with freebies removed) should be re-instated.