201 replies to this topic

[EmeraldSongbird]

There has to be some role they fill. Is it safe to say they basically rely on speed like lights do? They are easy to hit, don't have the best firepower, so what is up with them?

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

my centurion has more firepower than either of my cats

[Khobai]

You're right. Mediums lack both speed and armor. I often go after medium mechs first because they're very easy to kill.

However I think their firepower is decent. A Centurion A with three SRM6s can really put the hurt on.

[MischiefSC]

Padding stats for assault mechs and 3Ls. And splatcats. And boomcats.

[Chemistry Warden]

Flankers, and if they're set up right, light hunters. Notably, ECM lights can cause some light hunters trouble, but that's what ac/20's are for.

[Voidsinger]

A medium is meant to be a jack of all trades,a workhorse.

However, specialised builds rule in MWO, which is why mediums sometimes suffer.

[Blackfire1]

I mess up heavies and play pop shots on assaults.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

The role they're "Ment" to fill in the battletech lore is operation buddy to lights and heavier units. They're ment to have the speed to be one of the first mechs on the frontline, the armor to take a few hits while dealing out their own, then they're ment to fold back in with the Heavy's and Assaults to provide additional punch while the bigger machines deal out the real hurt. Mediums provide something of a backbone force.

The ideal medium should be quick, and decently armored with some ok firepower, nothing stellar, they're jacks of all trades. Ment to lay out hurt, then as I said, fold back into the pack and let the bigger stuff shine on what they beat up.

But the problem with this idea in Mechwarrior:Online is everyone wants the kill, no one wants to just put some damage on something and ignore it after... the KILL is king for players. And that's the wrong mindset from an in-universe perspective. but as a game, what can you do?

[Chavette]

They die fast.

[Khobai]

Quote

But the problem with this idea in Mechwarrior:Online is everyone wants the kill, no one wants to just put some damage on something and ignore it after... the KILL is king for players. And that's the wrong mindset from an in-universe perspective. but as a game, what can you do?

Thats why rewarding kills and KDR as a stat needs to be removed. It brings out bad qualities in players.

[Clideb50]

The cicada is essentially a very big scout mech. The Hunchback and Centurion shine when they follow an assault mech and wait for enemies to shoot the assault mech. This allows the medium mech to flank and hit the assault from the sides or rear. If targeted, they can use their mobility to get behind friendly heavies/assaults or behind cover and wait for the enemy to target something else. If an enemy ignores the others and keeps on them, they'll be taking hits from heavies and assaults. They're mobility also allows them to get across the battlefield to where they're needed most.

In short; they're the thankless, but vital versatile support. This holds especially true for the new Trebuchet.

EDIT:

Jade Kitsune, on 25 February 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

The role they're "Ment" to fill in the battletech lore is operation buddy to lights and heavier units. They're ment to have the speed to be one of the first mechs on the frontline, the armor to take a few hits while dealing out their own, then they're ment to fold back in with the Heavy's and Assaults to provide additional punch while the bigger machines deal out the real hurt. Mediums provide something of a backbone force.

The ideal medium should be quick, and decently armored with some ok firepower, nothing stellar, they're jacks of all trades. Ment to lay out hurt, then as I said, fold back into the pack and let the bigger stuff shine on what they beat up.

But the problem with this idea in Mechwarrior:Online is everyone wants the kill, no one wants to just put some damage on something and ignore it after... the KILL is king for players. And that's the wrong mindset from an in-universe perspective. but as a game, what can you do?

Exact purpose of the medium mech, and yes I'm a medium mech pilot.

Edited by Regulus1990, 25 February 2013 - 06:40 PM.

[Dreamslave]

Khobai, on 25 February 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

You're right. Mediums lack both speed and armor. I often go after medium mechs first because they're very easy to kill.

However I think their firepower is decent. A Centurion A with three SRM6s can really put the hurt on.

I'll be sure to smile wickedly when my 130 kph CN9-D obliterates you.

Edited by Dreamslave, 25 February 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[Lorcan Lladd]

Some of them are fast enough to hunt down Lights (CN9-D, CDA-3M), others possess enough endurance and firepower to fight against Heavy 'Mechs head-on (CN9-A, HBK-4SP) and all of them tend to be fast and maneuverable enough to backstab or evade Assaults.
They're not particularly good at any of these roles however and a team of full Mediums will fall apart if it is forced to contend with a heavier or lighter team.

Due to the current matchmaking mechanics, Mediums have become far less effective as there is little to prevent the enemy team from being given a Heavy or Assault 'Mech pilot for your one Medium 'Mech pilot.
Barring a significant disparity in terms of pilot skill, Medium 'Mechs are simply put the inferior choice.

I have 200k XP in Centurion variants, if you're left wondering.

[EmeraldSongbird]

Jade Kitsune, on 25 February 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

But the problem with this idea in Mechwarrior:Online is everyone wants the kill, no one wants to just put some damage on something and ignore it after... the KILL is king for players

Makes a lot of sense, every medium mech I encounter on the battlefield functions as if they were a heavy brawler. Either that or outright stop or hide in a corner and try to hit me while I strafe around them.

[Vlad Ward]

Flanker is a role that only exists on paper or in people's heads.

So long as the objective is to kill the other guys first, Mechs need to be designed to do that - not sit on the sidelines and "tear away some armor so other people can do the real work". Every conversation about the role of mediums around here ends up going the same way. People think it's okay to do half as much work as the Assault next to them and call it a day.

Well, this works fine when you're weight matched in pugs and the other team has as many functionally useless Mechs as you do, but it falls apart in 8-man play (and presumably the new weight-mismatched ELO MM). When you have the same number of Mechs on each team, each member of your team needs to be able to do as much work as each member of the opposing team.

If that opposing team is made up of 8 Assaults, and your team is made up of 4 Assaults and 4 Mediums, the Mediums can't afford to "play support for the big boys" and shoot every couple of minutes from cover and call it harassing. There aren't enough big boys to support. Each of those Mediums needs to be capable of contributing as much as one of the enemy's Assaults, or they lose. Period.

Otherwise, Lladd hit the nail on the head.

[Ulquiorra9000]

In my view, medium 'mechs are supposed to outshoot light 'mechs and outmaneuver heavy and assault ones. If a medium 'mech is balanced correctly in terms of firepower and speed, they are pretty versatile units like some people here have said. But if designed poorly they wind up being either slow scout 'mechs or under-gunned heavy 'mechs.

I use two medium 'mechs, a Centurion and a Trebuchet, and both are effective at all ranges while having decent move speed and armor. My Stalker is tough but can't react to smaller 'mechs fast enough, though my mediums can.

Edited by Ulquiorra9000, 25 February 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[ferranis]

The simple problem is that, anything a medium could do, a light/heavy does better.

[Thor77]

They're not the maximum anything, so I doubt they'll ever be the 'best' mechs in this game. But they're certainly playable. I've had a few good games in hunchbacks and centurions, Cicadas are basically bigger light mechs and I've seen them be effective as such. I saw a guy get 900 damage in a fast Centurion build one game.

As noted above, they're best at supporting the big boys, cleaning lights off the backs of their friends and backshooting enemy assaults. With a medium, you can usually do any 2 of the 3 main goals: speed, armor, and firepower. Choose two, and a play style that suits your choices and they should be viable.

Vlad makes a valid point about pulling your weight in a competitive match. Though with Alpine in the mix I could see 4 meds and 4 assaults giving a team of 8 assaults a nightmare. In games with a fixed drop weight (should that come to pass) they'll suddenly look a lot more attractive.

[Gaan Cathal]

It's a bit sad really, since a lot of medium mechs are very good at laying the pain on lights. Several can keep up (Centurions, Cicadas) while carrying more weaponry (Centurions, not so much Cicadas), whilst the others can do a good job of driving lights out of brawls (Hunchbacks-4J,-4P) despite being too slow to chase us down.

That latter one really needs to happen more, a pair of Assaults brawling it up gains a huge amount from a -4J/-4P 'satellite' IMO, it carries enough punch to matter in the brawl, and can keep lights off them with remarkable effectiveness if the pilot is inclined to shoot at them instead of throwing his hands in the air and protesting about the lagshield the second he misses anything smaller than a Cicada.

[Serapth]

Vlad Ward, on 25 February 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Flanker is a role that only exists on paper or in people's heads.

So long as the objective is to kill the other guys first, Mechs need to be designed to do that - not sit on the sidelines and "tear away some armor so other people can do the real work". Every conversation about the role of mediums around here ends up going the same way. People think it's okay to do half as much work as the Assault next to them and call it a day.

Well, this works fine when you're weight matched in pugs and the other team has as many functionally useless Mechs as you do, but it falls apart in 8-man play (and presumably the new weight-mismatched ELO MM). When you have the same number of Mechs on each team, each member of your team needs to be able to do as much work as each member of the opposing team.

If that opposing team is made up of 8 Assaults, and your team is made up of 4 Assaults and 4 Mediums, the Mediums can't afford to "play support for the big boys" and shoot every couple of minutes from cover and call it harassing. There aren't enough big boys to support. Each of those Mediums needs to be capable of contributing as much as one of the enemy's Assaults, or they lose. Period.

Otherwise, Lladd hit the nail on the head.

8man is a massively different beast. In a weight matched system, a medium just needs to take care of another medium to break even. The role of contributing damage is perfectly valid.

In 8man unlimited, well anything but the minmax build dujour ( D-DC, 3l, possibly a CAT ) is a bad pick.


At the end of the day, a big part of mediums appeal in Battletech is cost. That isn't factored into this game.