28 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

It's actually the flavor of choice in real world combat and has been for a very long time, like most of human existence long, being able to take your enemy out at range before he can do the same to you.

It's also been a tactic of choice in 8 mans for the better groups in MWO all along, because..well..it's just about the most effective tactic around. MW2 through MW4 was the same thing for leagues like NBT, leagues where 'classes' didn't exist but tonnage and tech used were the limitations for drops.

Counters for long range combat are better long ranged gunners OR being able to abuse the terrain and distractions to close with the enemy and hope your short ranged builds can survive long enough to get close..and pray they can put out more damage up close then the enemy can.

[PureRiffs]

Kingdok, on 26 February 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

I like and use everything you suggest in the above. The trouble I've had is with a team build consisting of 3 poptarts and an ecm brawler group of 2 D-DC's, 2 Raven 3L's, and a Streak Centurion. 1 poptart is target practice. 2 poptarts is team target practice. 3 poptarts coordinating fire is a serious problem. All they have to do is keep us pinned down for a minute while the stealth brawlers close in for the death swirly. I recognize this is a very highly polished plan. I hope this thread gathers more thoughtful responses (like the above) from players who have been experimenting with counter moves.

Let me save the trolls some time. I am terribad player, I need to L2P, I must be QQ'ing about ECM even though I don't need lock to shoot them with my PPC's. All this counter strategy discussion is irrelevant to me anyway because my Elo rank is dropping so low that soon I will never face *real* players in a match. Etc... etc... etc.... Any a--holes feel like pointing out the snark points I missed?

This was the situation i faced which made me make the post. 3 mechs where jump jetting while sniping with ppcs. They had 2 Atlas also popping out of buildings on river city shooting us. There was no advancing on this and targeting individual poptarts was really hard. They also had 2 ravens out there so an advance was really gonna be hard work.
The only way to respond seemed to be to be to snipe back but as our whole team was not made of snipers we were outgunned at long range.
Was a good loadout from them. So much so its probably worth a copy,

Edited by PureRiffs, 27 February 2013 - 02:26 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

I am probably not playing in the ELO league of high competitive players, but I have not really seen a lot of pop tarting and sniping so far. At least not really more than during the good old Gauss Cat dies during Closed Beta when we had no Double Heat Sinks...

My experience suggests that you should try to get close to your enemy, . But not solo, with the team. Everyone that isn't long range fire support should join you. You should move (not stay) in cover, of course. You will need to find the right angle for the attack. As anothe rposter suggested - it helps if you can avoid being scouted out too well. The fire support guys would serve create the illusion that there is a large group of mechs covering in fear with them. And yes, that means they will need to expose themselves occassionally. The enemy would need to be aware of them to focus on that direction, and their counter-fire will soften the targets up for brawlers.

When you move around exposed to enemy fire, make sure you're not running straight in their direction or away from them. Alter your movement direction so that leading the target becomes harder. Torso twist so that "unimportant" parts get hit first. (Unless all your firepower is in your arms, they are a good shield here... Of course, my favorite mechs are probably the Hunchback and the Atlas, which can easily sacrifice an arm... But the important is - the hit locations that will be targeted in a brawl are the assets you want to protect the most.)

[grayson marik]

PureRiffs, on 26 February 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

So it seems that the flavour of the month for high level play in 8 man seems to be long range battles. PPC’s and Gauss rifles.

I guess this is because of the ecm stopping people from targeting one person and having a brawl where the outcome can be a bit random.

So no I have to deal with jumpjets and PPC builds. I find all maps are too big to push in with short range weapons.

So does this mean everyone on my team must switch to this style of play or has anyone found any other counters to it?

Imagine if there was a lobby and you could team up with other people and agree to a balanced drop layout and play against people you at least can get along with...

Edited by grayson marik, 27 February 2013 - 02:31 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

grayson marik, on 27 February 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Imagine if there was a lobby and you could team up with other people and agree to a balanced drop layout and play against people you at least can get along with...

You mean only play with your friends who'll let you get away with bad tactics and strategies and halfassed skills?

Oh yeah, that sounds great...if you don't want to actually be part of the competition part of the community. Dropping 8 mans means you want to be in that part of the community though, which means you need to learn to deal with people NOT letting you get away with bad tactics, strategies and lack of skill.

[grayson marik]

Kristov Kerensky, on 27 February 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

You mean only play with your friends who'll let you get away with bad tactics and strategies and halfassed skills?

Oh yeah, that sounds great...if you don't want to actually be part of the competition part of the community. Dropping 8 mans means you want to be in that part of the community though, which means you need to learn to deal with people NOT letting you get away with bad tactics, strategies and lack of skill.

Nope I mean to open a room in a lobby and declare a droplayout ( example: 2/2/2/2 max 1 ecm, max 3 snipers, no mechs of same chassis twice or more )
And then play with people, who accept my layout for the fun of it.

I mean to get control over my matches back by deciding if i want o play cheese or not and also deciding against whom I want to play cheese or not.

So my cheese love would not hurt other players that do not want to "adapt" further into cheese than a certain point.

I mean to acquire freedom of choice for players to not be forced to the flavor of the month.

And I mean to OPEN the gates of MWO for competitive gameplay because playing with cheese against players who deny to play the same cheese as I do is hardly any competition!

for reference: http://mwomercs.com/...r-team-players/

Edited by grayson marik, 27 February 2013 - 02:51 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Grayson, what you propose doesn't even begin to approach the OP's subject, how to deal with the long range combat that is being used by the better teams in 8 mans. Or is that yet another of your 'conditions' to drop against you, that we must agree to NOT use smart tactics?

Again, what you propose has nothing to do with competative players, it's a purely personal thing for playing with your friends who'll let you get away with bad tactics, strats and lack of skill.

[MustrumRidcully]

grayson marik, on 27 February 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Imagine if there was a lobby and you could team up with other people and agree to a balanced drop layout and play against people you at least can get along with...

One day...

Kristov Kerensky, on 27 February 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

You mean only play with your friends who'll let you get away with bad tactics and strategies and halfassed skills?

Oh yeah, that sounds great...if you don't want to actually be part of the competition part of the community. Dropping 8 mans means you want to be in that part of the community though, which means you need to learn to deal with people NOT letting you get away with bad tactics, strategies and lack of skill.

It can be allowed to facilitate whatever the player wants
- Highly competitive matches among the best
- Casual Fun Games with bizare or subpar builds.

End Result - Maximized Fun for everyone, regardless of whether they are skilled players that like to see how they fare against other highly skille dplayer, or if you jus tike to run a Big STompy Robots with 4 MGs and an ER PPC.

[grayson marik]

MustrumRidcully, on 27 February 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

One day...


It can be allowed to facilitate whatever the player wants
- Highly competitive matches among the best
- Casual Fun Games with bizare or subpar builds.

End Result - Maximized Fun for everyone, regardless of whether they are skilled players that like to see how they fare against other highly skille dplayer, or if you jus tike to run a Big STompy Robots with 4 MGs and an ER PPC.

Finally someone gets it. Thank you, I already started to think i speak some kind of klingon or something.


And a side note, I agree with OP. Since a lobby would help players to have more fun playing, for the PUG queue I think that besides ELO, there should be something like a BV system for the mechs taken into account for the Matchmaker.

Edited by grayson marik, 27 February 2013 - 03:01 AM.