29 replies to this topic

[Runenstahl]

Just had an interesting idea while posting in the "why do people dislike the clans thread".

I REALLY like the "classic" battletech before all the new technology came up. No double heatsinks, XL-engines, ultra AC/5's, ER-weapons, endosteel, ECM, streaks, artemis or ferro armor.

Lore-wise many mechs around 3050 probably would still be models from 3025 or earlier.

So here's my idea:

Why not offer a "hardcore" mode where you can only field "classic" technology ?
In return for that you would get improved XP and/or money rewards.

Pro:
People who (like me) love the oldschool mechs will be able to field them. And while they would be at a disadvantage they would have some compensation for it. (Right now you CAN of course field them, but you would be stupid to do so).

Con:
Those who want to play hardcore will accept the risk to loose more easily due to their mechs being not up to par with the others... but people who don't want to play like that will be "hurt" by being put on the same team as "hardcore players" (as loosing will be more likely).

[Mechteric]

To be truly hardcore it should make the armor be at TT value as opposed to the 2x value implemented (though I do like the idea of a 3025 modifier as well). But of course it only makes sense if hardcore mode players only play other hardcore mode players, not sure why you would suggest there would be any cross playing from these modes.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 26 February 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[blinkin]

cross play would make something like this almst impossible to balance properly.

[DeadlyNerd]

Imagine the awesome with PPCs and current heat system. Even with the balanced heat on PPCs it still runs too hot for SHS.

I think you missed the biggest con of all. It would be downright boring. Then again, if armor was set to 1:1 as opposed to BT, it'd probably make it interesting cause then that awesome with 3 PPCs would punch holes in heavy mechs.

And no, letting the players of both modes play together is so illogical that it makes the reason to "why chicken crossed the road" look logical. Imagine letting HC Diablo players play among normal players.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 26 February 2013 - 01:04 PM.

[Monky]

Meh, just make a trial mech queue.

[rgreat]

Separate battles for these who stick with 3025 will fix all imbalances.

[Beeman]

I can dig it. They can setup essentially separate leagues, or have seasons themed on certain time periods.

I don't know if those seasons should apply to community warfare, though. Then again, my opinions on what would make community warfare great are kinda out there >_>

[Zyllos]

This is a bad idea with the current weapon convergence mechanics and is mostly the reason why double armor needed to be implemented in the first place.

[rgreat]

Zyllos, on 26 February 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

This is a bad idea with the current weapon convergence mechanics and is mostly the reason why double armor needed to be implemented in the first place.

What?!
I fail to see your reasoning.

[Psydotek]

I love this idea!

I'd almost say no variants allowed either and no customization, only the standard 'mechs found in the 3025 technical readout.

[rgreat]

Psydotek, on 26 February 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

I'd almost say no variants allowed either and no customization, only the standard 'mechs found in the 3025 technical readout.

As MWO screwed altered TT rules big time, so chances are stock configs would not work or ballance too good...

For example:
1. Double armor without double ammo.
2. Weak heat sinks, and more then twice heat generation.
3. High heat capacity without TT overheat penalties.
4. MG and flamers suck.
5. Cake and Bacon.

Edited by rgreat, 26 February 2013 - 05:27 PM.

[Runenstahl]

All in all it SHOULD work with the current MWO settings.
That armor and fire-speed have been doubled equals each other out (and most weapons have actually more ammo per ton if I'm not mistaken).

As for modifications: Nice idea to allow only 3025 models on the battlefield... that will make it even MORE hardcore
But then again, since we have modding limits (hardpoints) it's not such a big deal. Either way would work.

And yes, seperating battles would (obviously) fix any imbalance. But it would also divide the playerbase.

Hmm... maybe it's just a fun idea that could be used for special events like Beeman suggested...

Edited by Runenstahl, 27 February 2013 - 02:12 AM.

[Stringburka]

rgreat, on 26 February 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

For example:
1. Double armor without double ammo.

On the other hand it's easier to hit than in TT. Also, they did increase most ammo by about 50% (double for MG, less than half increase for AC-10, no increase for SRM, might be a few other exceptions) and increased LRM damage by 80% and SRM damage by 25%.

rgreat, on 26 February 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

2. Weak heat sinks, and more then twice heat generation.

How so? Heat is reduced by 1 per SHS per ten seconds, just like in TT. Most weapons have close to the same heat generation. The only weapon with twice heat generation I could find is the small laser. Most laser weapons have slightly increased heat (+1 for most it seems) but missiles and ballistics seems to be TT values.

I mean, you are following the TT rules of only fireing once per ten seconds, aren't you?

[Max Liao]

I would pay extra, or even a monthly fee to play 3025 Tech, stock 'Mech only (no modification), and extremely limited house variants.

[Stormwolf]

Max Liao, on 27 February 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

I would pay extra, or even a monthly fee to play 3025 Tech, stock 'Mech only (no modification), and extremely limited house variants.

Same here, I've come to appreciate 3025 despite being primarily a Clan player.

Hell, I'd personally love to have hardcore 3050 to be the basis for community warfare. But that's simply not in the cards because every mech needs to be a pseudo omni.

[rgreat]

Stringburka, on 27 February 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

How so? Heat is reduced by 1 per SHS per ten seconds, just like in TT. Most weapons have close to the same heat generation. The only weapon with twice heat generation I could find is the small laser. Most laser weapons have slightly increased heat (+1 for most it seems) but missiles and ballistics seems to be TT values.

Fire rate is doubled, tripled or more.
But damage and heat generation are full for each shoot.
Not a wonder that canon mech configs are so FUBAR.

SHS are the same as in TT, right.
But DHS are nerfed.
Add there increase in heat capacity invented by PGI... mechs can have capacity of 50 instead of TT 15 maximum.
That allow PPC boating stalkers and similar crazy stuff.

So all in all gameplay and balance are completely different.

I would not say that PGI balance is outright bad. It is just really different and stock mechs are not really balanced well with it.

Quote

I mean, you are following the TT rules of only fireing once per ten seconds, aren't you?

That will be a bad idea either.
TT Damage/Heat values must be applied on a basis of 10 seconds of constant firing. Not per shot.

That will keep game true to canon balance, while giving a broad possibilities for fine tuning.

Edited by rgreat, 27 February 2013 - 03:39 AM.

[Broad5ide]

The only problem I have with this idea is the bonus c-bills part. People should be playing it because they want to, not because they want more c-bills. Also, those aren't omni-mechs

[Stringburka]

Quote

So all in all gameplay and balance are completely different.

That I can agree with. It's natural for a realtime game to end up different.

Would have been interesting if damage/heat was as canon over a 10 second period. On the other hand, fights would be very, very long even with standard armor values. EDIT: As an example, Medium Lasers (with current cooldown) would have to deal 1.5 damage per shot.

Edited by Stringburka, 27 February 2013 - 03:47 AM.

[Jay Kerensky]

Only if I can have the Warhammer, Rifleman, Battlemaster, Maurauder and Archer included

[rgreat]

Stringburka, on 27 February 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

That I can agree with. It's natural for a realtime game to end up different.

Would have been interesting if damage/heat was as canon over a 10 second period. On the other hand, fights would be very, very long even with standard armor values. EDIT: As an example, Medium Lasers (with current cooldown) would have to deal 1.5 damage per shot.

Single ML is not really powerful even now.

But if you make AC20 shoot once per 10 seconds, you could oneshot a mech.

Edited by rgreat, 27 February 2013 - 04:10 AM.