56 replies to this topic

[Chou Senwan]

Basically, half the community thinks Raven-3Ls get played too much because they're more powerful than any other light mech. I wonder if PGI is worried about admitting that things are screwed up. But we'd like to see how many Raven-3Ls got played over the weekend compared to other mechs, and how good their K/D ratios are.

And if the stats don't bear out our assumptions, well, I'll grudgingly admit that I was wrong, and announce that I'll never complain about 3Ls anymore.

[Serapth]

Chou Senwan, on 26 February 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Basically, half the community thinks Raven-3Ls get played too much because they're more powerful than any other light mech. I wonder if PGI is worried about admitting that things are screwed up. But we'd like to see how many Raven-3Ls got played over the weekend compared to other mechs, and how good their K/D ratios are.

And if the stats don't bear out our assumptions, well, I'll grudgingly admit that I was wrong, and announce that I'll never complain about 3Ls anymore.

It's worse than that.

The Raven is broken, bugged to hell, and should be pulled from the game until it's fixed. It can take many times the amount of laser fire that it should be able to.

Until that happens we can't even begin to discuss if it being one of the fastest mechs, with ECM and 2 missile hardpoints is a stupid balance decision ( note, it is ).

[Tarman]

IDK, I like the passive-aggressive 3rd person perspective in the title. Bit long for a title though. Also, the whole Power/Masses dynamic like it's the Russian Revolution. Could be a contender with some revision work here.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Chavette, on 26 February 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Its true though.

Don't insult Grraarrgghh's game, you'll make him angry. Even if you are right.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 26 February 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[LogicSol]

Serapth, on 26 February 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

It's worse than that.

The Raven is broken, bugged to hell, and should be pulled from the game until it's fixed. It can take many times the amount of laser fire that it should be able to.

Until that happens we can't even begin to discuss if it being one of the fastest mechs, with ECM and 2 missile hardpoints is a stupid balance decision ( note, it is ).

They die pretty damn fast to laser fire when you aim slightly in-front of the them and target their knees.

[Helmer]

Appears the are taking the approach of fixing other, larger, issues before they drill down to others..

"Before we do anything to the 3Ls we are waiting for state rewind to come in. 3L's will be a lot less desirable when you can't hide behind lag shields."


http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1943427




Cheers.

[Serapth]

LogicSol, on 26 February 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

They die pretty damn fast to laser fire when you aim slightly in-front of the them and target their knees.

This goes back to lagshield issues, if you have to lag shoot a single mech, somethings up. I can kill Jenners, Commandos and Spiders without effort using lasers, it's just ravens.

That said, with the 3l, its not lag shield, its something else. It's been reported for months that you can alpha a Raven 3l that's standing still and watch it shrug the damage off. The mech has buggy hit detection, so a good number of strikes simply "go through" it.

[EyeOne]

What exactly are they suppose to do about the 3L? Is it the 3L or ECM that is bugging you so?

I dunno, they are annoying but I'm not sure what you can do about it. Make a new hardpoint "Narc Hardpoint" that can only equipe Narc? That would leave it will just one Streak 2 right?

The 3L exists within the rules they have already created. You can nerf its armor or speed without breaking the rules. I recall seeing plenty of 2Xs and 4Xs this past weekend.

[Serapth]

Helmer, on 26 February 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Appears the are taking the approach of fixing other, larger, issues before they drill down to others..

"Before we do anything to the 3Ls we are waiting for state rewind to come in. 3L's will be a lot less desirable when you can't hide behind lag shields."


http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1943427




Cheers.

There is something else wrong. A 3l can be standing still and shrug of an 80 point alpha... that aint lag shield.

[LogicSol]

Serapth, on 26 February 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

This goes back to lagshield issues, if you have to lag shoot a single mech, somethings up. I can kill Jenners, Commandos and Spiders without effort using lasers, it's just ravens.

That said, with the 3l, its not lag shield, its something else. It's been reported for months that you can alpha a Raven 3l that's standing still and watch it shrug the damage off. The mech has buggy hit detection, so a good number of strikes simply "go through" it.

Interesting, I've never seen the stand tall and take an alpha behavior myself, that's just straight up weird. But if Helmer agrees I can't argue. I've never had huge issues with them though, presumably because I tend to leg lights and am not a heavy streak/LRM user.

[DaZur]

People in power don't like placating to hyperbole just to shut people up...

[Phalanx100bc]

I think is saw a post with dev info stating they understood the Raven hit-boxes need tweaking and that the work would occur over the next 2-3 patches.

I'm sorry I can't find the original dev post itself.

[FrozenAnt]

Helmer, on 26 February 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Appears the are taking the approach of fixing other, larger, issues before they drill down to others..

"Before we do anything to the 3Ls we are waiting for state rewind to come in. 3L's will be a lot less desirable when you can't hide behind lag shields."


http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1943427




Cheers.

The problem is being looked at in the wrong way. If hit, a jenner will take the same amount of damage as a raven. So yes a 2xppc, gauss phract is a serious danger to a raven, but it is just as dangerous to a jenner, and more so to a commando, spider. The state rewind affects ALL lights.

What people do not look at is Raven vs light+mediums
EVEN with the state rewind a jenner pilot has to do either 2 of the following
-Use cover to negate as man streak volley' as possible
-Hit his SRMS on the core or torso Each and EVERY time.

Those are both hard tasks, and the jenner pilot will have to have considerably more skill in order to do this. However, put the same skilled jenner pilot in a spider and ask him to kill the raven... odds are he can't do it!

The problem isn't with netcode, hit detection, or any programming. It is the Raven's load out. He can keep pace with every other light, and can ALWAYS hit with streaks and forces the skill of his opposition to be much higher just so he can hit with direct fire missiles.

The skill required to pilot any other light is through the roof in order to compete with a 3L. Put that same skilled pilot in a 3L and he just got a skill modifer!

Keep in mind I'm talking about 1v1light vs light combat. DO NOT come here saying "My atlas can 1 shot a raven" Take your atlas rip it's armor down to a light's. Keep your slow speed AND firepower. Lets see how well you do. The problem is the SSRM ECM combo. NOT THE MECH!

[J0anna]

EyeOne, on 26 February 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

What exactly are they suppose to do about the 3L? Is it the 3L or ECM that is bugging you so?

I dunno, they are annoying but I'm not sure what you can do about it. Make a new hardpoint "Narc Hardpoint" that can only equipe Narc? That would leave it will just one Streak 2 right?

The 3L exists within the rules they have already created. You can nerf its armor or speed without breaking the rules. I recall seeing plenty of 2Xs and 4Xs this past weekend.

Quick fix would be to have ECM stop ALL missile locks (friendly and enemy) in disrupt mode, thus ECM mechs would have to make themselves vulnerable to streaks to use them. That being said, I have found that fairly often I am able to beat a single raven or commando in my jenner, the problem comes when they are able to gang up, but that's more my fault for allowing myself to get trapped in a fight with more than one of them.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Grraarrgghh, on 26 February 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

MAD ABOUT ROBOTS!

TIME FOR KAKAPOSTING!

OH NO RED X R SKURRY.

[Alistair Winter]

Helmer, on 26 February 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Appears the are taking the approach of fixing other, larger, issues before they drill down to others..
"Before we do anything to the 3Ls we are waiting for state rewind to come in. 3L's will be a lot less desirable when you can't hide behind lag shields."
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1943427
Cheers.

I appreciate the fact that you want to be positive, but surely you can see the flaw in your argument. People aren't complaining about light mechs, they're complaining about a specific variant. Today, Raven 3L is the ultimate light mech. Stopping people from "hiding behind lag shields" (which is missing the point entirely, btw) doesn't suddenly make it more interesting to dust off a Jenner or a Spider.

[Vermaxx]

Moenrg, on 26 February 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

.....but that's more my fault for allowing myself to get trapped in a fight with more than one of them.

Except when min/max four player teams take two to four of them. At that point, the admitted issue of broken hit detection and the excellent payload are four times worse, and you were forked the moment you spawned in.

[LogicSol]

FrozenAnt, on 26 February 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

The problem is being looked at in the wrong way. If hit, a jenner will take the same amount of damage as a raven. So yes a 2xppc, gauss phract is a serious danger to a raven, but it is just as dangerous to a jenner, and more so to a commando, spider. The state rewind affects ALL lights.

What people do not look at is Raven vs light+mediums
EVEN with the state rewind a jenner pilot has to do either 2 of the following
-Use cover to negate as man streak volley' as possible
-Hit his SRMS on the core or torso Each and EVERY time.

Those are both hard tasks, and the jenner pilot will have to have considerably more skill in order to do this. However, put the same skilled jenner pilot in a spider and ask him to kill the raven... odds are he can't do it!

The problem isn't with netcode, hit detection, or any programming. It is the Raven's load out. He can keep pace with every other light, and can ALWAYS hit with streaks and forces the skill of his opposition to be much higher just so he can hit with direct fire missiles.

The skill required to pilot any other light is through the roof in order to compete with a 3L. Put that same skilled pilot in a 3L and he just got a skill modifer!

Keep in mind I'm talking about 1v1light vs light combat. DO NOT come here saying "My atlas can 1 shot a raven" Take your atlas rip it's armor down to a light's. Keep your slow speed AND firepower. Lets see how well you do. The problem is the SSRM ECM combo. NOT THE MECH!

Since when can other lights not carry streaks? Yea yea spider don't have missile mounts. But both commandos and jenners do.
PS TAG, it works against ECM.
PPS, teammates also work against ECM, because this game isn't designed around 1v1.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Serapth, on 26 February 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

It's been reported for months that you can alpha a Raven 3l that's standing still and watch it shrug the damage off.

calling BS!

if you know how to aim you can alpha a 3L with 100% armor and kill it straight out in one hit. People kill my 3L all the time. A good pilot will kill me in 2 or 3 hits moving at 150kps and zigzaging around buildings. Heck i die more than I survive. The 3L is not the problem. Its your aim. see it all the time. most people tend to just hold down their mouse buttons then aim. No wonder you cant hit ****!

[Vermaxx]

I run with good players. I routinely hear them express surprise at the hit detection on a mech.

Only ever happens with ravens.

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 26 February 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

calling BS!

if you know how to aim you can alpha a 3L with 100% armor and kill it straight out in one hit. People kill my 3L all the time. A good pilot will kill me in 2 or 3 hits moving at 150kps and zigzaging around buildings. Heck i die more than I survive. The 3L is not the problem. Its your aim. see it all the time. most people tend to just hold down their mouse buttons then aim. No wonder you cant hit ****!

Can someone kill a raven? Yes. Does it take more work than equivalent mechs? Seems so, and it shouldn't.