60 replies to this topic

[Vulix]

Recently introduced IRL friend to MWO and they downloaded it. Let me just sum up some of the main points I feel are relevant to discuss:

- Movement controls were confusing at first, but were sorted out in a few matches. Particularly, it took some time getting used to have independent controls for the upper and lower torsos. It became non-isuse in few matches. However, he didn't really start "getting" the controls until I explained it to him - a better tutorial system could solve this, hopefully something in-game. Just reading documentation isn't as effective as seeing the controls actually work.

- "What's conquest and assault mean?" - game menu let's you choose between the two with no explanation of either

- No understanding of role warfare and important of teamwork. The first few matches, my friend treated MWO like any other FPS and got blown up pretty quick. Then, after learning he could survive a bit more sticking near teammates, he would do use his assault mech to focus on capping instead of shooting enemies, and generally played his role wrong with each mech. For people not familiar with Battletech or mech roles, they might not get the point of teamwork and playing to your mech's capabilities.

- The trial catapult and atlas are too slow to be fun, especially on maps like Alpine and Caustic

- No explanation of weapon groupings or how to change\set them. I had to explain it otherwise he would have not gotten it for a while.

- No idea of differences between different weapons, or the min\max weapon ranges and damage output. Perhaps an in-game weapon's table can help with this?

- No feeling of team cohesiveness, the importance of teamwork is really no stressed at all to new players

So far those are the major ones. I am helping guide him to be a better player, but I could definitely see new players without mentors play this game, get frustrated, and quit with a bad attitude.

[Rhent]

Vulix, on 26 February 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

Recently introduced IRL friend to MWO and they downloaded it. Let me just sum up some of the main points I feel are relevant to discuss:

- Movement controls were confusing at first, but were sorted out in a few matches. Particularly, it took some time getting used to have independent controls for the upper and lower torsos. It became non-isuse in few matches. However, he didn't really start "getting" the controls until I explained it to him - a better tutorial system could solve this, hopefully something in-game. Just reading documentation isn't as effective as seeing the controls actually work.

- "What's conquest and assault mean?" - game menu let's you choose between the two with no explanation of either

- No understanding of role warfare and important of teamwork. The first few matches, my friend treated MWO like any other FPS and got blown up pretty quick. Then, after learning he could survive a bit more sticking near teammates, he would do use his assault mech to focus on capping instead of shooting enemies, and generally played his role wrong with each mech. For people not familiar with Battletech or mech roles, they might not get the point of teamwork and playing to your mech's capabilities.

- The trial catapult and atlas are too slow to be fun, especially on maps like Alpine and Caustic

- No explanation of weapon groupings or how to change\set them. I had to explain it otherwise he would have not gotten it for a while.

- No idea of differences between different weapons, or the min\max weapon ranges and damage output. Perhaps an in-game weapon's table can help with this?

- No feeling of team cohesiveness, the importance of teamwork is really no stressed at all to new players

So far those are the major ones. I am helping guide him to be a better player, but I could definitely see new players without mentors play this game, get frustrated, and quit with a bad attitude.

Preaching to the choir. I think everyone who plays MWO agrees with you accept the Piranha Development team or if they do the tasks are so low in their Sprints they won't be dealing with them till the second coming.

[blazarian]

Vulix, on 26 February 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

- No feeling of team cohesiveness, the importance of teamwork is really no stressed at all to new players

There's truth behind what you are saying, but this caught my eyes the most. There really aren't any motivation to do teamwork when you look at the gameplay at newcomers perspective. The only "teamwork" there is to stay as a big group and most likely to focus fire to certain enemy mech. The problem is that there kinda isn't anything to do teamwork for, at least visually or as a feeling (no threat or constant danger, you feel you can survive all the time).

I could think of some point defences or similar mechanics to be added to make the teamwork priority one. There could be some DM modes of course in the future that could be just for solo, but the current Conquest mode should really be revamped and new gamemode (with more tactical and team play requirements) especially for the new (Alpine) and upcoming 12v12 maps.

[Kdogg788]

I tried once but the friend who attempted to play the game was so overwhelmed that he probably won't try again. He says the game is way too complicated for him. That's ok though, to each his own and not everyone will like the game. I'd like the game to be successful, but at the same time, it shouldn't be dumbed down to make it acceptable to the fps masses.

-k

[Johnny Reb]

Heh, had the same problem in TF2. My RLF is my brother and would be walking into a wall despite my help/coaching. Means crap, if they want to play they will learn fast! However, I do want tutorials or help for new peeps!

Edited by Johnny Reb, 26 February 2013 - 11:12 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

every weapon listed shows damage values range etc if you view the info panel.

good feedback though.

[Erasus Magnus]

valid concerns. that were my observations, too. mwo already lost some of my buddies due to the obscure nature of the game.

[Mad Cat II]

Vulix, on 26 February 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

Recently introduced IRL friend to MWO and they downloaded it. Let me just sum up some of the main points I feel are relevant to discuss:

- Movement controls were confusing at first, but were sorted out in a few matches. Particularly, it took some time getting used to have independent controls for the upper and lower torsos. It became non-isuse in few matches. However, he didn't really start "getting" the controls until I explained it to him - a better tutorial system could solve this, hopefully something in-game. Just reading documentation isn't as effective as seeing the controls actually work.

There is an in game training video for this.

- "What's conquest and assault mean?" - game menu let's you choose between the two with no explanation of either

Shouldnt take more than a few games to get this. I am not sure if the in game video addresses this.

- No understanding of role warfare and important of teamwork. The first few matches, my friend treated MWO like any other FPS and got blown up pretty quick. Then, after learning he could survive a bit more sticking near teammates, he would do use his assault mech to focus on capping instead of shooting enemies, and generally played his role wrong with each mech. For people not familiar with Battletech or mech roles, they might not get the point of teamwork and playing to your mech's capabilities.

Its a team game. Not sure how someone can just ignore this fact OR think that they could.

- The trial catapult and atlas are too slow to be fun, especially on maps like Alpine and Caustic

These are just stock variants, MOST of the fun is in custom builds IMO.

- No explanation of weapon groupings or how to change\set them. I had to explain it otherwise he would have not gotten it for a while.

Again I am not sure this is listed in the videos or not. But it should be.

- No idea of differences between different weapons, or the min\max weapon ranges and damage output. Perhaps an in-game weapon's table can help with this?

This is listed in the Mech lab.

- No feeling of team cohesiveness, the importance of teamwork is really no stressed at all to new players

"Team game"

So far those are the major ones. I am helping guide him to be a better player, but I could definitely see new players without mentors play this game, get frustrated, and quit with a bad attitude.

[mechymike]

hands down the hardest thing about getting new people into MWO. how much time you need to spend playing to even be able to build your own mech. and god forbid you mess up and buy a mech you dont like, or a loadout you don't like...

this game is extremely unfriendly to new players atm... hoping something is done about that. i mean, i'm a founder with MC and premium, yet i too find this grind extremely boring. the sooner they can get the clan system going the better because i'm bored to tears of this rinse and repeat 100 times to get a new mech and another 40 times to gear it up. as a premium!

Edited by mechymike, 26 February 2013 - 11:18 PM.

[Ari Dian]

there are several training videos.
These explain the basics really well. I would prefer an ingame training ground as well. But the videos are ok as alternative.

[WANTED]

I nice tip before the match begins in loading screen would be good for new players. Most games do that these days.

[Benyamin]

I think an in game training ground would be excellent. Something that could give you as much time as you needed to get a feel for the controls, and how to set up your weapons groups.

Also, being able to drop with a friend or two so you could learn target locations and hitboxes could be nice. I know in WoT, it's nice if you're having trouble against a certain tank, to have a buddy drop in the training grounds in that tank, to allow you to know where to most effectively hit it.

[Mad Cat II]

mechymike, on 26 February 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

hands down the hardest thing about getting new people into MWO. how much time you need to spend playing to even be able to build your own mech. and god forbid you mess up and buy a mech you dont like, or a loadout you don't like...

this game is extremely unfriendly to new players atm... hoping something is done about that. i mean, i'm a founder with MC and premium, yet i too find this grind extremely boring. the sooner they can get the clan system going the better because i'm bored to tears of this rinse and repeat 100 times to get a new mech and another 40 times to gear it up. as a premium!

I think it only takes like 20 matches atm to get a mech with the EXTREME bonus to the first few matches you get. Not sure though since i am also a founder

[Ari Dian]

mechymike, on 26 February 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

hands down the hardest thing about getting new people into MWO. how much time you need to spend playing to even be able to build your own mech. and god forbid you mess up and buy a mech you dont like, or a loadout you don't like...

this game is extremely unfriendly to new players atm... hoping something is done about that. i mean, i'm a founder with MC and premium, yet i too find this grind extremely boring. the sooner they can get the clan system going the better because i'm bored to tears of this rinse and repeat 100 times to get a new mech and another 40 times to gear it up. as a premium!

it is not anymore after they added credit bonus for new players (cadet bonus). Now it take what? Around 4-6 games to be able to buy a first, light mech? 25 matches to get 8 million BONUS credits (in addition to the normal payout from matches).
It is NOT hard anymore to get your first own mech. Just depend what mech you want, and how well you want to equip it. A full geared Atlas with XL engine, DHS, Endo, Artemis and whatever else cost a bit more than a stock commando....

WANTED, on 26 February 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

I nice tip before the match begins in loading screen would be good for new players. Most games do that these days.

There is. On the mech lab there is a link and information for the training ground. At least there was for sure. Because i saw it for the first time in game.

[roguetrdr]

Training videos, new player help forums, helping your friend personally, all these things would have helped. Sure in game training would be nice, but until that's up and running what do you propose? Should PGI personally go around to the house of every new member and show them how to play?

I remember back to my first few games. Yep I suicide charged the first few, couldn't work out grouping strait away either. Worked out it's a throttle pretty quick and that WASD are used for movement and mouse for aiming (because shooter). When I finished that first game I alt+tab out and went hunting on the forums (which were much smaller back then) to see if I could find a solution. Took all of 2 min work to find out what I needed to know.

What I'm saying is you can't really expect to be spoon fed everything by the devs. Hell in real life if you can't work something out at work do you throw your hands in the air and say "I quit because I don't understand how to do this"?

[blazarian]

Kdogg788, on 26 February 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

I tried once but the friend who attempted to play the game was so overwhelmed that he probably won't try again. He says the game is way too complicated for him. That's ok though, to each his own and not everyone will like the game. I'd like the game to be successful, but at the same time, it shouldn't be dumbed down to make it acceptable to the fps masses.

-k

I think the game is way too simplified instead. Why this feels complicated is of course the lack of guidance for new players. But if they are introduced to MWO the way they should, they would think for sure that this is as simple as this kind of game could be. The gamemodes available at the moment are way too simple for my taste, there really isn't anything to do.. other than fraghunt. I could pretend the capping is interesting in Conquest but there aren't really any motivation for it atm.

[Chavette]

Hover tool tips are much needed, esp the game mode changer for example, new user feedback is worth gold, PGI should really pay attention to threads like this.

Edited by Chavette, 01 March 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[Exoth3rmic]

Benyamin, on 26 February 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

I think an in game training ground would be excellent. Something that could give you as much time as you needed to get a feel for the controls, and how to set up your weapons groups.

Practice area is coming.

Q: Will you implement a real trial ground map in game, where players could learn how to maneuver and shoot without having to take into consideration enemies or his teammates?
A: This will come in two parts: Testing Grounds – an empty sandbox level with dummy targets, and Private Matches.

Also - I get the beta/non-beta arguments - but MWO is incomplete - more functions are coming. No point forcing the hard sell on people by explaining how good it potentially will be or asking PGI to spend massive amounts of time and resources on drawing in new players before they deem it ready for 'release'.

If the difference between 'beta' and 'release' is the amount of tutorials available - I'm happy waiting to show any more of my friends how good I find it until state rewind, MM tweaks, UI changes, more maps, more mechs etc are in before PGI focus again on the new user experience.

Edited by Exoth3rmic, 27 February 2013 - 12:56 AM.

[Retu81]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 26 February 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

every weapon listed shows damage values range etc if you view the info panel.

good feedback though.

Except if you only have trial mechs, you don't see the information, since you can't customize them.

[Vulix]

Hm, you guys really don't need to defend the game to me, I bought into closed bea and have been playing ever since; I'm just posting what I observed a new MWO player go through and what aspects of the game have given them most trouble thus far