67 replies to this topic

[Mxxpower]

This game is waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy different now than in closed beta. Being a founder makes no difference.

And honestly, more founders have stopped playing this game than play, I would expect. So some of those could be returning players.

I personally know 3 legendary founders that were dissapointed and quit playing after open beta. I am still here, but rarely play unless a new hotness patch comes out.

IMHO - the game needed to be at the state it's in now before going into open beta...

[BigJim]

Bad idea.

Consier, just for a second; ELO is a success ranking - More experience will help in that success - therefore the founder's status (if you equate it to experience) is already taken into account via the Elo score.

To prove one's working-out, consider - An experienced player who got into Closed beta before there even was a Founder's programe will have just as much experience, if not more, than your Founders.
Just like the founders, his experience is already taken into account via his Elo.


Nothing more to be said.

Edited by BigJim, 27 February 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[JadePanther]

Diablobo, on 27 February 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Sigh...me too. I missed the Founder's program by 3 days. I was going to buy an Elite package when I got paid, but they killed it before then, so I just missed it.

There was quite plenty of time on founders purchases.. heck they even extended it iirc.. Sorry u didnt make the extended cut but It was open for quite a while.. and the buzz about the game was out there, even before the sucess of founders day making something like $5mil in one day hit the news sites...

Ilwrath, on 27 February 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Why?

Well i dont wear my founders tag in game, cuz i just dont have the pride to wear it with the current product.. I know a few other founders who dont wear it either.. but there is a feeling goin around that the tag makes u a bigger target now that it's visible before the match starts.

[Icepick]

Trust me, I am living proof that 48-yr-old Founders can suck at this game - especially in an unfamiliar chassis.

Note: My tag is turned off to protect the reputation of my fellow founders.

[Fooooo]

Diablobo, on 27 February 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

That's all well and good. I could be a new player who is a prodigy and a billy-bad-a$$, but I guarantee you, I will take a pause when I see a bunch of Founder's Tags. It is a significant consideration, and no team should have such a huge disparity of Founders on its team. It should have an even mix, and the MM can accomplish this
.

You changed your argument to encompass everyone who has experience, and now your going back to just founders ?

What if PGI had made it so no founders tags showed at all in the game ? Then the problem you state in this quote would not happen at all. Hence your point is now moot.....until you change it to encompass everyone with more playtime again.....

Now, I don't doubt you have a decent point in that experience plays a role, however atm elo cannot determine that nomatter what you do.

I could be an experienced player who just created a new account, the same thing ends up happening.

Edited by Fooooo, 27 February 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[EgoSlayer]

Zyne, on 27 February 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

im a founder and my tag is turned off in game.

Ilwrath, on 27 February 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Why?

Threads like this, that's why.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

I think it should be based on how much money you spend. For every $20 you spend your Elo should be inflated by 10%.

That would teach those losers who keep the game running.

[Ari Dian]

Diablobo, on 27 February 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

That's fine to turn it off, but the fact still remains, you are more experienced than the pilot who just started. That is a huge bonus, and should be taken into account in the MM.

Ehhh, no. Thats plain wrong.
Just because he has a founder tag does not mean he has played more or has more experience.

A founder that is only playing 1 hour a day has played less, and is less experienced than a player that just started and is playing 16 hours a day.

It was a small problem when the game came out (YES, i know, open beta and stuff, blabla). Because these had a "little" bonus compared to all other because they had already 4 mechs with a good credit bonus. But thats it. With hero mechs and the spend time this is a void indicator for skill.

Heck, some from the tournament have done more matches in the 3 days compared to some founders have done at all since release (YEA YEA, open beta....).

Edited by Ari Dian, 27 February 2013 - 07:08 AM.

[Chrithu]

Closed beta non-founder here (one of quite a lot actually).

Founders tag is no indication of experience or skill. It only indicates that person believed in this project before it even was in a playable state and laid down money to support it. That is all there is to a founders tag. Deducing anything else from it is simply wrong.

Edited by Jason Parker, 27 February 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[Stoicblitzer]

The only significance I would attach to a bunch of founder's on one side would be premade. I wouldn't assume that they are very good.

[Chrithu]

Stoicblitzer, on 27 February 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

The only significance I would attach to a bunch of founder's on one side would be premade. I wouldn't assume that they are very good.

Not even that. A founders tag really says nothing but the person paid for this game to be made. It's not like the founders are some exclusive club that love to hug each other and beat the **** out of any outsider. Macthing house logos are a much stronger indication for a premade than a bunch of founders tags.

[Stoicblitzer]

Jason Parker, on 27 February 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

Not even that. A founders tag really says nothing but the person paid for this game to be made. It's not like the founders are some exclusive club that love to hug each other and beat the **** out of any outsider. Macthing house logos are a much stronger indication for a premade than a bunch of founders tags.

Ya you're right. Although, when I see 6 founders on the other team and mine has 1 (me) I get slightly wary that this may be a roflstomp.

[Penance]

Scrad, on 27 February 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

You know Founders tags can be switched off in game don't you?

This..i founded and turned the tag off in game.

[Bodhi]

I am a founder and quite simply I am an average player at best. Just because people have a founders tag does not mean they are Epic players.

Focus on your own skills and you will get better. Adjusting ELO so it makes it easier for some while punishing others is not the answer we really need.

[B B Wolfe]

Well, gee, if I knew having my founder tag would make me a better pilot, I probably wouldn't suck this much. Mmmm... placebo effect... <3

[Glythe]

Diablobo, on 27 February 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

I just finished a Pug game where my team was confronted by no less than 6 Legendary Founders. My team had one.
Now since we know that that the Founder's Program was discontinued before open beta arrived, they are at the very least pretty experienced players.

Either the first or second game with the Elo system put my team of 4 up against 8 Legendary founders. Our other 4 pugs may as well have been afk.

Diablobo, on 27 February 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

I doubt that actual length of playtime is at all taken into account when calculating Elo ratings.

Indirectly..... you can only move up or down 50 points from a single win or loss. If you have a very high score you've been playing a while.

Diablobo, on 27 February 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Given equal stats, the Founder is probably going to win more often than the player who has not been playing as long. I think there should be a boost in Elo rating to the players who have Founder's tags. It should even be possible to weigh the ratings based on time played.

There's no need. If you win a lot you have a high Elo. There's no need to say you've been playing a year you need an Elo boost. Everything is already factored in. There's also the fundamental flaw that I tried this game at launch and hated it. One year later I picked it up again...... should I have a Elo inflation as a result?

[Agent of Change]

Ilwrath, on 27 February 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Why?

Probably already been answered but i got tired of whiny in game comments like:

Whinewarrior: Oh noes founders!!!1!!!
Whinewarrior Disconnected

or

Whinewarrior: look at all the founders must be a premade synchdrop cheese fest, whine whine whine whine

With the tag turned off I'm invisible to that kind of annoying commentary and prejudging. A decent sized group of my corps all did the same one night as an experiment and the comments and accusations just kind of went away, also had fewer d/c's but I'm not placing any real correlation on that.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I bought my foundeds package whileout of country and didnt get to start playing until after open beta..like sometime in Nov.

[Kylere]

Founders can suck just like anyone else, they spent money it does not mean they went to MW Advanced Camp.

[Roland]

Diablobo, on 27 February 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

I just finished a Pug game where my team was confronted by no less than 6 Legendary Founders. My team had one.
Now since we know that that the Founder's Program was discontinued before open beta arrived, they are at the very least pretty experienced players. I doubt that actual length of playtime is at all taken into account when calculating Elo ratings. Given equal stats, the Founder is probably going to win more often than the player who has not been playing as long.

This is a nonsensical statement.
If one pilot wins more often than the player who has not been playing as long, then the founder will have their Elo rating raised by the system.

That's the whole point of the Elo rating. You don't artificially raise their rating based on the fact that you think they would win more, regardless of the data.

The Elo rating is essentially a predictor, based on past performance, of your chance to win a given match against a given opponent.