36 replies to this topic

[JadePanther]

MstrHellraiser, on 27 February 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

A team of light can totally wins VS a team of assault.

If you don't understand how, you don't understand MechWarrior at all. (And should probably play an assault as you think this is a brawler only game....)

Your mech type is your stategy. Your skill as a player is your difficulty as an opponent.

ELO is the way to go.

this is close but not the same.. we only won cause we had some streaks and missile boat cat.. and yes i did get the only not light on the other team.

[Voridan Atreides]

Agent of Change, on 27 February 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

One team has 4-5 assaults and the opponent has 1 or none
One team has 4-5 lights and the opponent has 1 or none
One team has 4-5 ECM mechs and the other has 1 or none
or any combination of the above.

I see that too. Ive dropped several times in a row where my team only had one or zero ECM mechs and the opponent has had 3-5 and I can tell that out chance of winning goes down immensely. Same with the assaults and lights like you said.

[Glythe]

Skaroth, on 27 February 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

As was said above, the best your strategy gets you is a draw. Out in the open you'd likely lose.

I really don't think in the case of 8 equally skilled pilots that lights would beat assaults in the open. Usually as a light you need someone who can take some punishment to keep the Atlas from immediately turning to kill you. Let's throw out ECM momentarily as that can cloud the issue. One assault mech can alpha srike a light mech and destroy its side torso or leg (if he isn't using an XL then he is slow and far easier to hit..... and has less offense).

The last time I checked light mechs make poor missile boats. PPCs are difficult to manage on a light in prolonged engagements (the kind where you might be fighting 4 Atlases with 4 lights until all of one team is destroyed). So.... when you initially clash with those Atlases you're going to have some problems as you get in close to circle them.

And then there is the issue of streaks. Four Atlases can carry 12 streaks. If each stayed on one target and none of their other weapons hit they would deal 60 damage (that can't miss) per volley. And then you have to remember that Atlases have quite a lot of free tonnage for weapons. Now let's bring ECM back on the table. Unless you bring 4 ravens the 4 Atlases are streak proof. There is nothing you can do to make the ravens streak proof (because 4 ECM counters 4 ECM).

The bottom line is that well built assaults will never lose to well built lights in this vacuum arena. Furthermore.... the first time I issued this challenge I stated it a little more clearly: "You can't kill 4 assaults with 4 lights within the 15 minute time limit. Worded that way there is no question of what is the intended mechanic. The lights attempt to kill the assaults or they lose the challenge.

[Stringburka]

Yes, dropping 4 atlas vs 4 jenners sucks. It's unlucky, and your chance of winning is slim (though existant) if it's assault and not that great if it's conquest.

However, it's still far superior to dropping with 4 trial cicadas piloted by newbs while the opponents have 4 optimized 4SP's piloted by experienced players.

Hence, it's a huge improvement. IME, matches are far more even now.

[Warskull]

I've noticed massive improvements in matchmaking since Elo was introduced. The quality of match has vastly improved. I seem to get fewer total idiots in my matches, when there are total idiots they are spread out more evenly, and the matches tend to be closer.

Is it perfect? Of course not, but it is a step in the right direction. They also do try to balance by weight, but the longer you search the more willing they are to give you an imbalanced match-up to make sure you get a game. They just need to improve some weaknesses in the system a bit.

Edited by Warskull, 27 February 2013 - 07:30 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

JadePanther, on 27 February 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

this is close but not the same.. we only won cause we had some streaks and missile boat cat.. and yes i did get the only not light on the other team.

This was a shenanigans drop with Marik's it was an attempt on the FWL to have an All Jenner-F drop! good job timing the sync too!

[Bodhi]

I am of the feeling that the ELO has really helped the game play significantly. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I am an average player. With ELO running, I am seeing far more games where the fights are significant fun as opposed to stomp fests going either way.

ELO has balanced the game play significantly in my opinion.

[Wispsy]

Glythe, on 27 February 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

The bottom line is that well built assaults will never lose to well built lights in this vacuum arena. Furthermore.... the first time I issued this challenge I stated it a little more clearly: "You can't kill 4 assaults with 4 lights within the 15 minute time limit. Worded that way there is no question of what is the intended mechanic. The lights attempt to kill the assaults or they lose the challenge.

Well with 4 Jenners each with 6 medpulse lasers it takes a surprisingly small amount of times to core at Atlas....keep in mind you have no control over time of engagement or direction, they can even come from above, so you cannot return fire...

Every map has cover unless you also wish to implement some rule such as "cannot disengage once fighting has started" and then go at them with ssrms....

In an actual game, it is down to the skill of the pilots and the mech loadouts they bring with them, not the weight class they are in.

[JadePanther]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 February 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

This was a shenanigans drop with Marik's it was an attempt on the FWL to have an All Jenner-F drop! good job timing the sync too!

[Roland]

JadePanther, on 27 February 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

this is close but not the same.. we only won cause we had some streaks and missile boat cat.. and yes i did get the only not light on the other team.

How did you win by destroying all enemy mechs, when there is still an enemy mech alive?

[JadePanther]

Roland, on 27 February 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

How did you win by destroying all enemy mechs, when there is still an enemy mech alive?

yea thats a real head scratcher isn't it..

[Universe Man]

The problem I've seen is when I get into a conquest game and the enemy has 2+ lights and we don't have any. Happened yesterday and it was particularly lame, because it was on Alpine! Yes, we lost to cap lol

[Gallowglas]

We'll never reach a point where everyone is happy with everything, particularly with regard to something as subjective as matchmaking. Some people think elo makes things better. Others do not. If they tweaked the algorithms, we might end up with better matches, but longer queues, so even that could be a problem. At the end of the day, I think things are moving in the right direction and will continue to do so.

[Riogar Daylighter]

Just an FYI this thread is the only negative thread about ELO on the front page right at this moment in time. Kinda sums up what the rest of the forum community thinks.

[MaddMaxx]

Glythe, on 27 February 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

Prove it. I challenge you and 3 friends to fight 4 Atlases (or assaults) with any combination of 4 light mechs of your choice (guessing ravens). I'd even offer the challenge against the PGI team if they were so inclined to read this thread and then make time for a quick duel.

We'll all be camping by the base against the wall so you have to kill us from the front (unless you agree capping is not allowed).


I can score upwards of 400 with any weight class consistently. With an Atlas I can score anywhere from 600-1000 (not using any LRMs). I've spent my time in every weight class during the closed beta and release. I know how to kill people from behind as a light.

All that aside can you tell me with a straight face that bringing 4 ravens to conquest is even remotely fair if the enemy team has only 1 light mech?

Play it as Conquest on Alpine and your on...

[MischiefSC]

Strawman argument is a guy made of straw.

So teams are 8 v 8 so it's not just 4 atlases vs 4 lights. There are some disparities on weight though, I've seen a couple of games that were hundreds of tons different. The odds of winning probably do skew towards larger weight though all the ones I've seen seemed pretty evenly matched.

As to blowouts vs one-sided battles my experience is exactly the opposite. 8-2 matches are uncommon, 8-0 I think I've had 2 or 3 out of the last 100 matches. Most are 4-8, sometimes 6-8. They are all hard-fought games generally decided by 1 or 2 mistakes early in the match that snowball into victory.

If you got 1 match that was imbalanced or seemed one-sided, well that's going to happen no matter what sometimes. To pretend that 1 anecdotal experience equates to all matches is just ridiculous though.

Elo is a drastic improvement over Phase 2 - unless your Elo rating is way out of whack, in which case time will bring it to the place it needs to be.

Universe Man, on 27 February 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

The problem I've seen is when I get into a conquest game and the enemy has 2+ lights and we don't have any. Happened yesterday and it was particularly lame, because it was on Alpine! Yes, we lost to cap lol

This is more of an issue. We had success with taking F6 (the peak of the hill) and Epsi/Kappa/Gamma, defending them with snipers and missiles from the high ground. The lights tried to cap but we were able to drive them out and hold 3 points. It was an awesome match.

[Steven Dixon]

Elo was just implemented, not only haven't they had an opportunity to tweak it they don't even have that much data yet. It will take time to refine. On a side note I am far more afraid of an elite pilot in a Jenner than a noob in an Atlas. Personally, the quality of my games has already increased significantly, I'm being paired with skilled pilots against skilled pilots but not too many cheese builds or super elite players.

Edited by Steven Dixon, 27 February 2013 - 08:58 AM.