36 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I took the Standard 245 out of my Jenner and stuck it in my 4G with an AC/20...

heheheh

Works nicely.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 27 February 2013 - 08:54 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

I really don't believe armor values will be increased or even shifted. I also don't believe there will be passive damage resistance, but then I read the description of the missile bay doors as being reduced crit damage to the weapons, not reduced damage to the entire hit location. That is something I could imagine as being possible for the hunch and would support.

[valkyrie]

xRaeder, on 27 February 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

This is a much better build than yours. I never overheat unless I'm in the volcano for too long.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4505cc16649e28f

You lose 1 ML but you move so much faster it allows you to skirmish and get in and out of sticky situations.

Meh, to each their own. I do find value in having three medium lasers; a lot of people won't bother taking off the hunch entirely and get surprised later on when I come stomping through a clearing still doing 15 damage every few seconds. 7kph or so I can personally do without, but in a medium I need all the firepower I can get. Of course, one could also take the "useless without a hunch" concept to the extreme and just stick an XL in there, but that's not my bag.

Definitely need as much ammo as possible though, ideally 4 tons or more. Yeah, it's just 7 extra shots, but that's still a potential 140 damage, which is frequently more than I see pubbies doing in mediums all game.

[Davers]

valkyrie, on 27 February 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

To clarify, I'm not asking they give damage reduction or anything like that to the Hunch. But, maybe raising the maximum amount of armor you can put on there would be useful. Nothing huge, maybe just 10 points, but the overall maximum armor capacity of the chassis stays the same, so maybe you'd lose 5 off the LT and 2 off each arm or something.

Armor values are set by TT values, and I don't think they will change them. Not saying that as a TT defender, just saying. If they started making changes like that, then we would have to up the armor on the arms of the YLW and Centurions, and Dragons' CT too as well for the same reasons. Then every mech that has an asymmetrical design would scream they should get it changed too.

Only the PGI created stats are up for modification.

Edited by Davers, 27 February 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[valkyrie]

Prosperity Park, on 27 February 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

I took the Standard 245 out of my Jenner and stuck it in my 4G with an AC/20...

heheheh

Works nicely.

Something to think about - the STD245 is 17 tons and has 9 integral heatsinks, so it's technically 18 tons since you have to pop on a 10th heat sink. The STD250 is 18.5 and has 10 heatsinks built in and gets you an extra 2kph or so of speed for that half ton. Whether or not it's worth it to you is entirely your call, but if I'm pushing it past a STD225 already I'd just go all the way to the STD250 and keep all my heatsinks safe in the CT.

[OneEyed Jack]

xRaeder, on 27 February 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

This is a much better build than yours. I never overheat unless I'm in the volcano for too long.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4505cc16649e28f

You lose 1 ML but you move so much faster it allows you to skirmish and get in and out of sticky situations.

You also lose half the value of the mechs great range of arm motion, which is really bad in hilly areas. If you remove the head laser you lose zombie ability.

[Zaptruder]

Davers, on 27 February 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Armor values are set by TT values, and I don't think they will change them. Not saying that as a TT defender, just saying. If they started making changes like that, then we would have to up the armor on the arms of the YLW and Centurions, and Dragons' CT too as well for the same reasons. Then every mech that has an asymmetrical design would scream they should get it changed too.

Only the PGI created stats are up for modification.

That's not a bad thing though. It just means they have another variable that they can use as a lever in helping arrive at the right balance.

Hit boxes is one... damage reduction is another.

[Khobai]

Quote

Armor values are set by TT values, and I don't think they will change them

They should. Because TT is random hit locations and MWO is aiming. By not changing the armor values they made pinpoint weapons unbelievably overpowered.

[Zaptruder]

Khobai, on 27 February 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

They should. Because TT is random hit locations and MWO is aiming. By not changing the armor values they made pinpoint weapons unbelievably overpowered.

Damage reduction is really the more elegant solution; canon armor values are equally buffed/debuffed by them, while the max armor values from TT is preserved.

[Merky Merc]

I could see acceleration and deceleration levels being increased in the hunchbacks. Part of the whole shoot and scoot city fighter ideal, I believe they're supposed to represent.

Additional armor for the hunch doesn't make sense, the hunch is already extra heavy with w/e weapons and that's meant to be it's downside. As for 4G love.... eff dat variant. Easily the worst and most limited variant.

[Xandre Blackheart]

It's a trash mech. It's even more redundant with the absolutely ridiculous number of 50 ton mechs available. It's slower, has a giant hit box on the torso, and with the double armor having a medium mech with a ballistic main weapon is just silly.

The best way to fix the 4G(f) is to let me delete it so I don't have to look at it.

[Khobai]

Quote

Damage reduction is really the more elegant solution; canon armor values are equally buffed/debuffed by them, while the max armor values from TT is preserved.

Damage reduction could work as well. The point is something is going to need to be done before clan weaponry is introduced to mitigate the massive amount of damage clan weapons are capable of.

[Davers]

Khobai, on 27 February 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

They should. Because TT is random hit locations and MWO is aiming. By not changing the armor values they made pinpoint weapons unbelievably overpowered.

Is this an argument for triple armor values?

But really, after we add armor to light mech legs, Dragon CT, A1's ears and head, Centurion's arm, Atlas's Rears, Hunchback's RT, etc we end up where the obvious targets are the places NOT to shoot.

[Zaptruder]

Davers, on 27 February 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Is this an argument for triple armor values?

But really, after we add armor to light mech legs, Dragon CT, A1's ears and head, Centurion's arm, Atlas's Rears, Hunchback's RT, etc we end up where the obvious targets are the places NOT to shoot.

This is a silly slippery slope of a strawman you've devised.

Why would you add more armor to atlas and hunchback rears and light mech legs?

Even with a good amount of DR, the big hunch on the hunch back is still where you'd want to target to neuter the mech... just as the gun arm on the yen lo wang is where you'd want to shoot to neuter that mech.

And just as the location you want to target depends on what the Atlas is fielding; a ballistic focused atlas would have its ballistic side targeted; a missle focused atlas would have its missle side targeted.

[Davers]

Zaptruder, on 27 February 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

This is a silly slippery slope of a strawman you've devised.

Why would you add more armor to atlas and hunchback rears and light mech legs?

Even with a good amount of DR, the big hunch on the hunch back is still where you'd want to target to neuter the mech... just as the gun arm on the yen lo wang is where you'd want to shoot to neuter that mech.

And just as the location you want to target depends on what the Atlas is fielding; a ballistic focused atlas would have its ballistic side targeted; a missle focused atlas would have its missle side targeted.

Unless it has an XL engine, you actually want to hit the CT/Head of the Hunchbacks. If you make it almost the same difficulty to core a Hunchback as take out it's RT, then why target it? Not to mention, this is all assuming that it's a stock load out, not some weird 2 PPC and MPL 4G.

Adding damage reduction to mechs to cover their weak spots loses a lot of flavor of the mechs. You might as well just ask PGI to evenly distribute the hard points all over every mech.

[xRaeder]

OneEyed Jack, on 27 February 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

You also lose half the value of the mechs great range of arm motion, which is really bad in hilly areas. If you remove the head laser you lose zombie ability.

I just am careful with my maneuvers to avoid combat on hills. Just got out of a 4 kill 500 damage match and before that a 6 kill 600 damage match.

[Doc Holliday]

I once did a triple AC5 build with my 4G. It didn't work so well...