19 replies to this topic

[Whompity]

I started off my MWO "career" working up 'practs and mastering them. Then, for flavour, I moved to the mediums and bought me a Cicada 3M and experimented with speed and ECM. What a blast! Racing around, zapping things but...

My K/D ratio practically stalled, and while I was getting a lot of assists, my damage done and cash-per-match dropped significantly. I got a few kills here and there, and had did a lot of sneaking, scouting and flanking but... didn't have much to show for it.

On a whim, I swapped back to my 2X Phract (AC20, 3ML, SRM6) and stuff picked up again... made 3m bills in one short evening.

I know there are Raven 3L pilots out there who do really well, but... is this sort of thing normal? Does big mech = big damage = big money, GENERALLY speaking? Or is it more about skill? I found it was harder to stay on target with a light... sure you could circle-dance like nobody's bid'ness, but you couldn't hang in fights with larger targets. Hit and run, hit and run. THoughts?

[Joseph Mallan]

Depends on how yo play your Raven. the Raven's who wrack up the kills I assume do it in one of a few ways.
1)Kill Steal
We In the Law call it "confirmation" as we don't sweat stealing a kill from each other winning is more important.

2)Pack Hunt
A Murder of Ravens is a chilling thing to behold.

3)Light hunter
Locate chase and destroy the enemy Lights to remove the threat form the field of battle.

4)Spotting Assists
Some of my Teams scouts swear they get more XP/cash for spotting for the big guns.
I am sure a Light pilot could add to this list, but that's my thoughts on the question.

[Badconduct]

Assists pay almost as much (or more I think) than kills, or so I've notice. I had 3 kills 4 assists, 15,000 for the kills, 30,000 for the assists.

I saved up and bought an awesome, the 3 PPC version. Now it runs ST 300 engine, double heatsinks and 3 ER PPC. Does good damage, and I've never looked back.

I might pick up a catapult, but I'm more or less waiting for the Mauler.

[Moorecroft]

Speed lets you control position and location, which means you can be present and active and mobile in every sub-battle in a game. Mediums/Fast heavies regularly score in the top damages because they can control when and where the fights happen more, be involved in all of them, and fire more shots. Atlas needs to walk over that hill first, or around that corner, etc etc.

Also there is the issue of most of the upgrades (DHS etc) being much more useful on the smaller chassis which consequently become more efficient machines, in terms of heat, DPS and effective shots fired per game.

Also SRMs do crazy damage right now, particularly if you can get point blank. This is relevant.

Also if you are fast you can effectively withdraw from tough fights and then get circle back to reengage. Assaults and other slow mechs cannot maneuver fast enough and so, once they become the focus of effective fire, are too committed and go down guns blazing. A good lighter mech should be in and out as appropriate, force the enemy to switch targets, and then come back and do more damage. Speed is important for this, more than armour.

Edited by Moorecroft, 28 February 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Olivia Maybach, on 28 February 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

Does big mech = big damage = big money, GENERALLY speaking? Or is it more about skill?

I think it is first and formeost player skill. I know plenty of light pilots that can rack up the kills.

That being said, it is certainly easier to get kills when you are packing more firepower.

[Havyek]

Basically cash = damage, plain and simple.

If you have a dedicated spotter 'Mech, thank you for your team play and support, but you won't be raking in the cash.


I make good coin in my 3L and 7D when I run them, but that's by spotting, base capping, harassing but most importantly by doing damage.
If you can make it the length of the match, scoring 7-800 damage in a 3L or 7D is well within the realm of possibility, though not common.

[Voridan Atreides]

With the new economy everything is focused on big damage, lots of kills, and assists. One of the things I don't like about this is that people on a team (unless you are on comms) don't really work together. Everyone just seems to compete to get the kills and damage in a match. It is really annoying when a guy walks in my line of fire so that he can get that kill. I mean we do communicate and win but I see a lot of greedy people and I'm not innocent of it either. Another thing is that the average light and medium pilots are at a disadvantage because they can't put out the same damage numbers an assault or heavy can. There are little rewards for capping, spotting, and tagging/narcing. Just my two cents.

Edited by Voridan Atreides, 28 February 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[Exoth3rmic]

Roughneck45, on 28 February 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I think it is first and formeost player skill. I know plenty of light pilots that can rack up the kills.

That being said, it is certainly easier to get kills when you are packing more firepower.

It would be interesting to see how they would do in an assault. I find it unlikely that there are really that many competent light pilots who would not be equally competent or better in a heavy or an assault. This goes doubly for mediums.

[Roughneck45]

Exoth3rmic, on 28 February 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

It would be interesting to see how they would do in an assault. I find it unlikely that there are really that many competent light pilots who would not be equally competent or better in a heavy or an assault. This goes doubly for mediums.

Yea, that comes down to a personal choice I think. Those light pilots I know are terrific in any mech of their choosing, but most of them just have more fun or feel more confident when piloting a light. Most of them stay out of assaults though, switching to mediums and heavies once in a while.

Edited by Roughneck45, 28 February 2013 - 06:57 AM.

[ItsAPotato]

The cicada is a mech that takes a lot of skill to play very well (and I love it).

I usually finish matches with at least 350 dmg, often more in the range of 400 or 500, with the occasional 700 dmg match in my cicada 3M (pulse lasers are your friend).

That said, back when R&R was in the game, the lights were where the money was at. Sure, you could run an atlas and land 800 dmg per match with the accompanying c-bills, but you would often LOSE money after repairing and rearming your atlas. With lights, the cicada in particular, you had no ammo to replace, and even if you lose ALL your armor, it was still a relatively cheap bill. In the end, lights actually made way more money than heavies.

Of course, that was kinda dumb and it was probably the biggest reason they took R&R out of the game for re-design. When it makes its reappearance, though, I would expect that a very skilled cicada pilot could still have more net income per match than most heavies.

[Boymonkey]

If I take my Atlas out I make lots of cash but If I take out my Jenner and do my job as a scout I get ****** all cash, this isn't what the devs told us would happen they said you would get rewarded for doing your role which clearly isn't happening at the moment but hey it is beta and hopefully they will change it.
At the Moment mediums are more or less not being used because everyone wants that big damage and many times I have been the only medium in the game just surrounded by assault mechs and ravens.

[Jack Lazarus]

Here's some stats from the last game I just played in a CTF-3D, just so you can get an idea of where the money is to be made:
Kills 1
Kill Assists 7
Component Destruction 5
Damage Done 633
Spotting Assist 6

Total C-bill payout: 253,676
Win 25,000
Kills 5,000
Kill Assists 52,500
Component Destruction 12,500
Damage Done 15,825
Spotting Assist 15,000
Salvage Bonus 43,292
Premium Bonus 84,559

I personally choose to buy a month at a time of premium time because it really adds up. But beyond that, you can see that Kill Assists and the Salvage bonus are the biggest payouts. Salvage bonus is based on what would be 'salvageable' of the enemy mechs. Cleaner kills result in a bigger bonus.

[Yokaiko]

Olivia Maybach, on 28 February 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

I know there are Raven 3L pilots out there who do really well, but... is this sort of thing normal? Does big mech = big damage = big money, GENERALLY speaking? Or is it more about skill? I found it was harder to stay on target with a light... sure you could circle-dance like nobody's bid'ness, but you couldn't hang in fights with larger targets. Hit and run, hit and run. THoughts?

Depends really, I have topped the match score numerous times in the lightest mech on the team. If you win its close. If you lose size doesn't matter much if your Atlas only did 120 damage and you did 750 in a Raven or Jenner, you make more $$$ regaurdless of kills.

Killing in small mechs is a matter of learning to look for weakness, find the un-armored part, and blow it off. That is how you get work done. With the bigger mechs you can often just blast out the CT and not care, smaller mechs are more of a finesse game. Particularly once you start zinging around at 140+

[Whompity]

If I'd played THAT match in my medium, I'd probably make (kill: 5000 + components: 10,000 + salvage: 40,000=55,000) less than that, given the same amount of spotting, assists, etc. That's pretty significant. I'm far from a stellar player; though I think most of my issues are strategic (going the wrong places alone) vs gunnery (which I think is generally OK... I do a lot of AC practice).

Different strokes, I suppose. I just seem to be more consistent in a heavy.

[FrDrake]

ItsAPotato, on 28 February 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

The cicada is a mech that takes a lot of skill to play very well (and I love it).

I usually finish matches with at least 350 dmg, often more in the range of 400 or 500, with the occasional 700 dmg match in my cicada 3M (pulse lasers are your friend).

That said, back when R&R was in the game, the lights were where the money was at. Sure, you could run an atlas and land 800 dmg per match with the accompanying c-bills, but you would often LOSE money after repairing and rearming your atlas. With lights, the cicada in particular, you had no ammo to replace, and even if you lose ALL your armor, it was still a relatively cheap bill. In the end, lights actually made way more money than heavies.

Of course, that was kinda dumb and it was probably the biggest reason they took R&R out of the game for re-design. When it makes its reappearance, though, I would expect that a very skilled cicada pilot could still have more net income per match than most heavies.

In one of the ask the devs it was stated they have NO plans to put R&R back in the game. They caved too hard to all the "r&r scares new player doomsayers".

[Whompity]

FrDrake, on 28 February 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

In one of the ask the devs it was stated they have NO plans to put R&R back in the game. They caved too hard to all the "r&r scares new player doomsayers".

I don't know what it'd add, to be frank... it'd just be a numbers game at that point and they'd probably end up bumping rewards to compensate. That just gives extra rewards to veteran (good) players and punishes newbies more, so I can understand the rationale behind keeping it out.

I think if this were a true MMO (with some out of cockpit RPG/Commerce bits) then it might be more realistic.

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 28 February 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Olivia Maybach, on 28 February 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

I don't know what it'd add, to be frank... it'd just be a numbers game at that point and they'd probably end up bumping rewards to compensate. That just gives extra rewards to veteran (good) players and punishes newbies more, so I can understand the rationale behind keeping it out.

I think if this were a true MMO (with some out of cockpit RPG/Commerce bits) then it might be more realistic.

They just need to have some sort of c-bill or xp sink, something we have to work for. (In addition to what is already there.)

R&R was supposed to be similar to that, but just ended up being a tax that discouraged players from actively participating or dropping in with damaged equipment.

Im really hoping that CW gives us some incentive and meaning for the matches.

Edited by Roughneck45, 28 February 2013 - 07:29 AM.

[Mawai]

Well ...

1) Assists pay 50% more cbills than Kills ... 5000 cbills for a kill and 7500 for an assist. Getting 8 assists pays significantly better than 8 kills.

2) Damage done pays 25 cbills/point. So 600 damage is 15000 cbills.

3) Spotting assists earn 2500 cbills each.

However, the biggest sources of income after assists are resources in conquest and salvage for winning.

Based on this ... I think all mech classes can earn about equally as long as they get some damage in on each target and as long as your choice of mech still contributes to the team winning.

On the other hand, getting kills is assisted by having more firepower and bigger one shot damage weapons. It can be harder to get a kill in a light mech ... unless actively hunting for vulnerable targets.

Edited by Mawai, 28 February 2013 - 07:40 AM.

[Mawai]

FrDrake, on 28 February 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

In one of the ask the devs it was stated they have NO plans to put R&R back in the game. They caved too hard to all the "r&r scares new player doomsayers".

No. I think it had a lot more to do with achieving a good balance in game. With R&R as it was previously, the premium and founders bonus were applied before repairs thus effectively increasing the bonus value by almost a factor of 2 in most cases. In addition, some mechs could be run very cheaply (energy lights) while others could not make money even when they won a match.

You can argue all day about "costs associated with using more expensive weapons" but to be honest it was all systems requiring ammo that were affected ... and ammo costs were neither even or balanced across the different options.

Personally, I like the extra level of detail and complexity offered by R&R costs ... but until they can come up with a good design to balance things out so that a string of losses won't leave folks with no cbills available to R&R their mechs then the game is probably better off without it. R&R is really more a part of the "campaign"/"role-playing"/"meta-game" aspect of MWO ... at the present time the focus is on the experience in the match and not what occurs before or after ... that may change with community warfare when wins/losses and possibly some form of R&R would have greater significance.

Edited by Mawai, 28 February 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Gregore]

Voridan Atreides, on 28 February 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

... It is really annoying when a guy walks in my line of fire so that he can get that kill....

This happens to me all the time, I am so fed up with it I just don't stop firing now.
Lots of fun when I am in the ilya. 15 dps into your back adds up quickly.