78 replies to this topic

[Royalewithcheese]

Davers, on 28 February 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Then what is to stop everyone from jumping ship over to the Clans when they become playable factions? It can't be Cbill cost. That leads right to P2W.

One idea I've heard is that it will be 1 star (5 mechs) vs. 2 lances or 2 stars vs. 3 lances. That would capture the "clan tech is just better" and "in the Inner Sphere, no1curr about your zellbringen and bidding and whatever" angles. I'm a fan of clan technology being balanced but different - so maybe a clan LRM has no minimum range but does not follow targeted enemies through cover, or a ER Medium Laser is somewhere between an IS ML and LL in terms of heat/damage/range.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 28 February 2013 - 02:25 PM.

[Terror Teddy]

I want an AC/15

LRM's got their 15 I want one for ballistics

AC/15
Recycle: 3
Damage: 15
Heat: 4,5
Weight: 13
Crits: 8
Range: 360 - 1080
Weapon Speed: 1000
Ammo/Ton: 11

[Roughneck45]

Davers, on 28 February 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Then what is to stop everyone from jumping ship over to the Clans when they become playable factions? It can't be Cbill cost. That leads right to P2W.

Actually its play to win, because you only get it with c-bills, but it certainly would not sit that well with people.

We don't know if the clans will acutally be playable yet either.

All speculation at this point. Either way, the Clan tech has to be better.

Edited by Roughneck45, 28 February 2013 - 02:29 PM.

[Davers]

Royalewithcheese, on 28 February 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

One idea I've heard is that it will be 1 star (5 mechs) vs. 2 lances or 2 stars vs. 3 lances. That would capture the "clan tech is just better" and "in the Inner Sphere, no1curr about your zellbringen" angle. I'm a fan of clan technology being balanced but different - so maybe a clan LRM has no minimum range but does not follow targeted enemies through cover, or a ER Medium Laser is somewhere between an IS ML and LL in terms of heat/damage/range.

Yeah, I can see CLRMs not sharing friendly target information and needing to get their own locks, and yeah Clan energy weapons run hot and without true DHS it will mitigate them somewhat. But things like UAC/20 and SSRM6...Nothing the IS has can compete. Not to mentioned that they will both be boated when possible.

[Terror Teddy]

Roughneck45, on 28 February 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Actually its play to win, because you only get it with c-bills.

And boy will they be expensive...

[Royalewithcheese]

Davers, on 28 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Yeah, I can see CLRMs not sharing friendly target information and needing to get their own locks, and yeah Clan energy weapons run hot and without true DHS it will mitigate them somewhat. But things like UAC/20 and SSRM6...Nothing the IS has can compete. Not to mentioned that they will both be boated when possible.

Yeah. Like even in my UAC/20 idea from earlier (same mechanics as UAC/5, except same base fire rate) that would let a boomcat do 80 damage to something horrifyingly quickly. I got no idea how they're going to balance this stuff hahaha.

[Roughneck45]

Terror Teddy, on 28 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

And boy will they be expensive...

I wouldnt be suprised if a single Clan ER Mlas cost half a mil, or even 1 mil.

[Heffay]

The orders are pouring in! We only have limited quantities, so be sure to get in early before we sell out!

Rumor also has it that Comstar is contemplating a "UAC Violence Prevention" bill, limiting the magazine capacity for our weapons to 10 rounds. Be sure to write your Houses to express your opposition to these unnecessary restrictions.

Remember, UAC20s don't kill mech pilots. *I* do!

[Nathan Foxbane]

Just to answer the original question as it seems to have been neglected. Because all Ultra class autocannons except the Ultra AC/5 were reverse engineered from Clan built version. Same with the LB-X series other than the 10, the ER Lasers other than the Large, and Streak SRMs other than the 2. The exceptions were all available to the Star League and so currently recently available once again in the Inner Sphere.

[FupDup]

Nathan Foxbane, on 28 February 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

Just to answer the original question as it seems to have been neglected. Because all Ultra class autocannons except the Ultra AC/5 were reverse engineered from Clan built version. Same with the LB-X series other than the 10, the ER Lasers other than the Large, and Streak SRMs other than the 2. The exceptions were all available to the Star League and so currently recently available once again in the Inner Sphere.

It seems strange (if not idiotic) as to why lore says the IS couldn't just apply the tech of their UAC5 to make a bigger gun (i.e. 10 or 20). The same goes with ER lasers, Streaks (add a few more missiles to the tube, herpaderp), and LBX.

Edited by FupDup, 28 February 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[Davers]

Roughneck45, on 28 February 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Actually its play to win, because you only get it with c-bills.

We don't know if the clans will acutally be playable yet either.

Well you can convert MC to Cbills, even if inefficiently.

Pretty sure the Devs said in the last Ask The Devs that they would be.

[Kraven Kor]

Needs a beaker track for the audio.

(I'm at work and did not have audio on, no clue what you actually have playing along with that.)

Would have been infinitely better if, towards the end, the ejection system sent a flaming mechwarrior into the rafters.

[BARBAR0SSA]

They need a way to reward people for fighting someone better outfitted.

If you go at a mech with 2 Mls and they have a UAC20. Zero cbills for them, and you get a pair of those steel balls you see on pickups to hang from your mech. (visualize a jenner for laughs)

[Mawai]

FupDup, on 28 February 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Don't forget CLRM20s.


EDIT:


Might as well just delete IS tech then. The only people who wouldn't go straight to Clan tech would be hardcore role players and total newbies (as if their trial mechs don't get obliterated hard enough as it is). Plus, can you imagine our current "cheese" builds with Clan gear shoved in them? I'm already salivating over a Clan Raven 3L.

If I had to guess ... I think that if and when playable clan mechs and tech are introduced you will ONLY be able to play clan tech on clan mechs. In addition, when dropping, teams will be either all clan or all inner sphere and they will not have even numbers of mechs on them. Most likely matches will be created with one clan star (5 mechs) against two IS lances (8 mechs).

At the beginning of the clan invasion ... salvaged clan tech would only be available when IS mechs won the field and were able to salvage ... as far as I know the clans stomped during the first year or so of the invasion so any clan salvage will be extremely few and far between for the next couple of years.

However, that is just a guess ... everyone else can have their own opinions ... but I don't expect us to be able to fit whatever clan tech we want on whatever mechs we want in any reasonable time frame.

PGI might even make the ability to play clan mechs either against other clan mechs or against IS mechs ... a reward from the community warfare system. ... Only time will tell

[BoydofZINJ]

Year Availability for the Clans = 2825 (Steel Vipers made the first cUAC20 - Clan Ultra AC 20)
Year Availability for the Inner Sphere = 3060 (Lyran Alliance made the first Inner Sphere version - former allies of the Federated Suns and former member of the Federated Commonwealth and they used to be called the Lyran Commonwealth).

****
Canon. However, are we 100% in canon or not? Who knows... I think we are... but maybe not.

For those who are wondering:

At this point of the stage (assuming this is March 1, 3050):

ComStar was blocking transmissions from planets being invaded by the clans and had a truce with them.

Wave 1 (from April thru March of 3050) the clans were first attacking and invading the Inner Sphere (wave 1):

Clan Wolf took the following worlds: Alleghe, Balsta, Chateau, Icar, New Caledonia, Outpost, St. John, Skallevoll, Svelvik, and The Edge

Clan jade Falcon took the following worlds: Anywhere, Barcelona, Bensinger, Bone-Norman, Here, Persistence, Steelton, Toland, Trell I, and Winfield

Clan Ghost Bear took the following worlds: Constance, Damian, Holmsbu, Pinnacle, and Thule

Clan Smoke Jaguar took the following worlds: Almunge, Bjarred, Idlewind, Richmond, Rockland, Schwartz, Stapelfeld, Tarnby, Turtle Bay, and Virentofta

Most of these worlds were "frontier" type worlds out on the edge and many people did not travel to them or communicated with them in any great detail - for the most part. The Clans called the invasion as Operation Revival. Operation Revival was intended to be the great return of General Kerensky's heirs. Ostensibly, the Clans intended to free the people of the Inner Sphere from the greed and corruption of the constantly warring Successor States, and re-create the great Star League. Though ComStar facilities were present on many of the planets conquered during Operation Revival, the Com Guards were ordered to remain neutral - the new Clan Invaders would simply be a different lord to whom ComStar could provide communication services. In an unlikely twist, these neutral Com Guards became the military which stopped the Clan Invasion.

Edited by Boydsan, 28 February 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Terror Teddy]

Roughneck45, on 28 February 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

I wouldnt be suprised if a single Clan ER Mlas cost half a mil, or even 1 mil.

With the timber wolf at 24 million I'd guess that a 100 tonner would be around 30 mil.

And here's the kicker - you cant remove internals on an omnimech since they are essentially built from the ground up as one integrated machine instead of different parts.

They will be DAMN good in combat but you get less flexibility than you get from IS ones - but I can live with that if I get a murder machine for 24 mil.

shad0w4life, on 28 February 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

They need a way to reward people for fighting someone better outfitted.

If you go at a mech with 2 Mls and they have a UAC20. Zero cbills for them, and you get a pair of those steel balls you see on pickups to hang from your mech. (visualize a jenner for laughs)

Battle value or a percentage value in the difference of total C-bills per team.

If I fight a marauder for 25 mil and I have 4 50 tonner mediums for 4 mil a piece then we have a disadvantage of 34% so we get a higher reward.

[FrostCollar]

Terror Teddy, on 28 February 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

With the timber wolf at 24 million I'd guess that a 100 tonner would be around 30 mil.

And here's the kicker - you cant remove internals on an omnimech since they are essentially built from the ground up as one integrated machine instead of different parts.

They will be DAMN good in combat but you get less flexibility than you get from IS ones - but I can live with that if I get a murder machine for 24 mil.



Battle value or a percentage value in the difference of total C-bills per team.

If I fight a marauder for 25 mil and I have 4 50 tonner mediums for 4 mil a piece then we have a disadvantage of 34% so we get a higher reward.

That's nominally true. However, if we're going strictly by canon then we shouldn't be able to muck around with anything on a non-omnimech at all, or at least not without forking over loads of cash for all sorts of custom engineering, right?

[FupDup]

Terror Teddy, on 28 February 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

And here's the kicker - you cant remove internals on an omnimech since they are essentially built from the ground up as one integrated machine instead of different parts.

I remember once hearing that Omnimechs could in fact have their armor/engine/etc modified, but the instant you did so it became a standard Battlemech and forfeited all Omni capability.

Speaking of Omni capabilities, currently our existing mechs already work that way (weapon swapping that is fast instead of taking days/weeks) in addition to having modifiable internals.

[Xeren KelDar]

FupDup, on 28 February 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

It seems strange (if not idiotic) as to why lore says the IS couldn't just apply the tech of their UAC5 to make a bigger gun (i.e. 10 or 20). The same goes with ER lasers, Streaks (add a few more missiles to the tube, herpaderp), and LBX.

Its not that the IS is dumb, but that the UAC5 is NEW. Inner Sphere is just now getting back lostech from the Star League and have only recently begun fielding that tech where as the Clans never lost it. Before the IS could really get into the nuts and bolts of bumping the UAC5 into the UAC10 etc, the clans invaded. This influx of clan tech gave them better blueprints so to speak and so they didn't have to design it have scratch. IF the Clans hadn't invaded and the IS didnt lose the tech again it is entirely feasible they'd have made all the UAC types as well as streaks and ER Lasers. The rotary autocannon, triple strength myomer, and the C3 network are all examples of the IS reawakening its technological knowledge and applying it.

[Terror Teddy]

Boydsan, on 28 February 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

Most of these worlds were "frontier" type worlds out on the edge and many people did not travel to them or communicated with them in any great detail - for the most part.

Not to mention that the superiority of the Clans can be attributed to several factors:
-Fanatical
-Genetically engineered with faster reaction times than usual humans
-Hi tech mechs (that has some limitations)
-Disorganized border worlds with poorly organized forces no-one cared about
-Warring factions in IS

Considering the SIZE of the IS the Clans would hav been wiped out in the long run due to the fact that WHEN the IS became organized they could bring in EVERYTHING even if the Clans had better tech.

Not to mention utilizing every backstabbing tecnique know to man they learned during the succession wars against clans who wanted to fight according to their ways.

Etc...