65 replies to this topic

[Parnage Winters]

Az0r, on 28 February 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

I think the team that has the better pilots, practice harder and uses up to date min/maxed configs will win. Cheese be damned.

Most sane thing I've read in the forums today. Good to know that still exists.

[Teralitha]

Parnage, on 28 February 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Most sane thing I've read in the forums today. Good to know that still exists.

If the game was balanced, he would be correct.

[Das Wudone]

skill is still the deciding factor no matter what mech u face/bring but it also heavily depends on the situation u and ur team are in. however i do agree that running cheese builds does make a significant difference on the battlefield especially if its a good player behind it.

[Vlad Ward]

Teralitha, on 28 February 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

If the game was balanced, he would be correct.

He already included "and uses the most up to date min/maxed configs", so he is correct.

[Psikez]

Teralitha, on 28 February 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

If the game was balanced, he would be correct.

We can balance it by only having commandos and only small lasers

[Fitzbattleaxe]

The problem with polls is that they lack nuance.

Can a skilled pilot in a non-ecm, non-boating build take out an unskilled pilot in a cheese build? Sure. No one denies that. Does that mean that cheese builds aren't overpowered? No! Just because something can be overcome if you're good enough, doesn't mean it's well balanced. That's what many of the pro-ecm crowd refuse to acknowledge.

So yeah, MWO is primarily a game of skill. But not as much as it should be.

[Eddrick]

Fitzbattleaxe, on 28 February 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

The problem with polls is that they lack nuance.

Can a skilled pilot in a non-ecm, non-boating build take out an unskilled pilot in a cheese build? Sure. No one denies that. Does that mean that cheese builds aren't overpowered? No! Just because something can be overcome if you're good enough, doesn't mean it's well balanced. That's what many of the pro-ecm crowd refuse to acknowledge.

So yeah, MWO is primarily a game of skill. But not as much as it should be.

This can't realy be argued against. It speaks the truth from all points of view. ECM can be overcome without to much effort. But, it is still much easyer for the person with it.

Edited by Eddrick, 28 February 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[ChrisOrange]

Teralitha, on 28 February 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

What are peoples opinions about these 2 game questions?

Kind of odd leading questions on this poll.

No not all chassis will be competitive viable. I don't even think that's a real question because players will always min/max which means one is always better than the other. In the old mech3 days...good players rarely took the Bushwacker because the Shadowcat or Strider filled that role much better while being harder to hit.

So this was mech3: a system WITHOUT hardpoints and you still had mechs like the Thor and Bushwacker that just RARELY got used in competitive due to their shape ONLY.

Now the designers of THIS game went down the Hardpoints path this problem gets worse for competitive play. Not only is your "favorite" mech super easy to hit but it's also got worse hardpoints for it's weight class. If you are insanely good you can ALREADY make bad mechs work well enough but it will be a constant struggle and more than likely if your team is worth a damn they will kindly ask you to not be an a$$hat and just take something that's good.

[Xetherius]

To start, personally I'm a Hunchback pilot at the moment (also an Atlas guy, but I'm a bit bored of them for now, and Hunchbacks are fun) and I bounce back and forth between my 4P and my 4SP. Therefore I have little knowledge of how piloting a light (*cough* Raven *cough*) or a Cheeseapult.

From personal experience, I'd say the game is more skill based (but loads and loads of CHEESE helps). A good pilot in a mediocre mech will beat a mediocre pilot in a good mech most times. That being said, all mechs should have a spot, (even if some are slightly at a disadvantage due to hardpoint locations and types or whatever) and I don't feel that they are all competitive. Let's take mediums, for example. I notice that, despite being fairly lethal in my 4P, when I'm in my SP it's considerably more deadly (given the right engagement of course). At the moment, some mechs are viable, others are not, and others are useable, but overshadowed, and this is something that should be changed.

[ChrisOrange]

k well I had a big long post here but basically these are loaded questions. Not every chassis/mech will be viable unless a league forces you to use them.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 28 February 2013 - 08:43 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

Here's an important question:

If you have good pilots in mediocre Mechs (the good guys), and mediocre pilots in good Mechs (the bad guys), what do you call good pilots in good Mechs?

[Ghogiel]

Vlad Ward, on 28 February 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

Here's an important question:

If you have good pilots in mediocre Mechs (the good guys), and mediocre pilots in good Mechs (the bad guys), what do you call good pilots in good Mechs?

winners?

[Protection]

I keep saying this, but hoping every chassis/variant will be viable in competitive play is hoping for too much. There is no game with customization where everyoption is viable.

What we should realistically hope for is that there are a reasonable number of viable cookie cutters to choose from so that we have some options and flexibility in choosing from an assortment of maybe twenty so pre-defined acceptable competitive mechs.

[Az0r]

Vlad Ward, on 28 February 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

Here's an important question:

If you have good pilots in mediocre Mechs (the good guys), and mediocre pilots in good Mechs (the bad guys), what do you call good pilots in good Mechs?

Competitive.

[Ialti]

Fitzbattleaxe, on 28 February 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

The problem with polls is that they lack nuance.

Can a skilled pilot in a non-ecm, non-boating build take out an unskilled pilot in a cheese build? Sure. No one denies that. Does that mean that cheese builds aren't overpowered? No! Just because something can be overcome if you're good enough, doesn't mean it's well balanced. That's what many of the pro-ecm crowd refuse to acknowledge.

So yeah, MWO is primarily a game of skill. But not as much as it should be.

No.

Edit to say: And I mostly run in Awesomes at the moment. Not an ecm issue. I just don't like whiners.

Edited by Ialti, 28 February 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[Teralitha]

Vlad Ward, on 28 February 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

Here's an important question:

If you have good pilots in mediocre Mechs (the good guys), and mediocre pilots in good Mechs (the bad guys), what do you call good pilots in good Mechs?

Bored.

[Brilig]

It is about the most effective mechs for the tactics you are using. Some of the is going to be cheese. Or at the very least be cookie cutter for top players. However as new strats, and tactics are developed new cookie cutter builds will be developed.

[Elessar]

I cannot answer questions 2 and 3 ... problem is, that it sounds like:
A Medium Mech should be able to defeat an Atlas in 50% of the cases.

And nope, that wouldn´t be what I want ...
every Mech (and variant) should have its role in combat, but not every Mech/Variant should be able to compete against each other (in terms of "being able to defeat")

[Vlad Ward]

Teralitha, on 28 February 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Bored.

Only when fighting players who lose so badly, and so quickly, that they have no other alternative but to go run to the forums and cry about it.

I'm plenty occupied when I fight other good players.

[Teralitha]

Elessar, on 28 February 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

I cannot answer questions 2 and 3 ... problem is, that it sounds like:
A Medium Mech should be able to defeat an Atlas in 50% of the cases.

And nope, that wouldn´t be what I want ...
every Mech (and variant) should have its role in combat, but not every Mech/Variant should be able to compete against each other (in terms of "being able to defeat")

I believe every chassis and varient should have a purpose on a team, and be desired in competitive level team play, not just a few... like it is now.