45 replies to this topic

[Fred013]

I'm glad no-one thinks that ALL ravens are bad. The 2X and 4X need help.

(No ECM, engine cap of 245, ballistics, 1 missile each)

[FupDup]

Fred013, on 01 March 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

I'm glad no-one thinks that ALL ravens are bad. The 2X and 4X need help.

(No ECM, engine cap of 245, ballistics, 1 missile each)

Well, the 2X is actually pretty good. 2LL + 2ML is amazing at ripping off limbs (especially Splatapult ears). I've also heard of 4MPL configs that did fairly well (never tried it, probably will some day).

The 4X, on the other hand, really does need some TLC. Both need their engine cap to match (or even exceed) that of the 3L.

Edited by FupDup, 01 March 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

the streaks are frustrating, but imho the bigger problem is the engine. the raven 3L should have a cap of a 265XL not a 295, and the 2X should have the 295 cap

[Gaan Cathal]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 01 March 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

the streaks are frustrating, but imho the bigger problem is the engine. the raven 3L should have a cap of a 265XL not a 295, and the 2X should have the 295 cap

The problem with this is just how much engine size dictates light combat. That, more than the hardpoints, is what made the Jenner so superior to the Raven before ECM was implemented, and once SSRM are back where they should be (ironically, they were fine when they were bugged) it'll probably be a similar story. The mechanics of mech movement as they stand mean that a substantially faster light has to try to loose in open terrain. Tight terrain (the urban regions, effectively) makes a huge difference here though, major equalizer on relative speed.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I have little problem with ravens, streaks or ECM... unless they're good pilots or having a lucky lag day, of which most are not, they can be a pain in the 'arse.

It's that dodgey hitbox that drives me absolutely insane! I swear the damn 'mech is so small and so fine that it does not matter where I turn my 'mech to prevent damage... it does not matter even if they shoot me point blank in the cockpit with an AC/20 ALOT of the time the damage will register on my rear armor (again, I think 'cos it's so small and fine) and core my CT. Oh man it ticks me off when I turn to spread damage accordingly and the damage is somehow transfered to my very weak rear armor...



Critical Hits # 6:

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 01 March 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

Note: When i said anyone that plays a Raven 3L is bad and should feel bad, I was joking.

Also, I'm terrible even in a Raven 3L, so it is not exactly a "win button" or anything.

[Oy of MidWorld]

I actually dislike that EVERY 3L has 3 MLAS and 2 SSRMS.

I have one that goes 106 kph, with two medium and one large pulse lasers. It takes a little more care, aiming and situational awereness. I use it as a scout, but it can defend itself. I once considered building the usual variant in a weak moment. But then i realized i'd feel ashamed piloting it.

Everyone in our lance has one of my builds, so we can take turns counter ECM'ing.

Edited by Oy of MidWorld, 01 March 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

"Dodgy" or "Faulty" hitboxes are definately the issue. You can see for yourself by firing on a willing or stupid target. I know it wont happen every game or even close, but the next time you have a chance to fire on a stationary raven, try it.

I tested this on a 3L who decided to cockily engage me while standing completely still. We both started with yellow CTs. (I was in a TBT-5J wit 5ML+1SSRM2) With both of us completely stationary, I fired my 5ML directly onto his CT, hitting no other subsystems (according to my target grid). His CT went from yellow to slightly darker yellow. We continued to fire our respective guns into each other repeatedly, without moving our cursors (I can only assume for him, but definitely for me). After three salvos, I was out of CT armor and in the orange internals, he was still on orange CT armor. He won that completely stationary duel between an unmoving TBT and an unmoving 3L by about four times the damage dealt.

Raven (not just 3L) hitboxes DO NOT FUNCTION CORRECTLY. Ravens (especially the 3L) get the brunt of the "Netcode isnt working" complaints because they are the most common light variant seen. This leads people to believe all lights have "netcode armor". This is not true. I murder the other light variants left and right.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 01 March 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Oy of MidWorld, on 01 March 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I actually dislike that EVERY 3L has 3 MLAS and 2 SSRMS.

3MLAS, SRM6 here.

[Fred013]

Gaan Cathal, on 01 March 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

3MLAS, SRM6 here.

Yup. Best build.

[Josef Nader]

The biggest problem with the raven is the ECM + Streaks, but the dodgy hitboxes certainly don't help matters. They need to move the side torso hitboxes off the nosecone, 'cause it spreads damage too darn well otherwise.

[FupDup]

Alright, who is the heretic who just voted that the 4X and 2X need to die in a fire?

[Fred013]

FupDup, on 01 March 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Alright, who is the heretic who just voted that the 4X and 2X need to die in a fire?

C'mon, 'fess up!

[One Medic Army]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 01 March 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

"Dodgy" or "Faulty" hitboxes are definately the issue. You can see for yourself by firing on a willing or stupid target. I know it wont happen every game or even close, but the next time you have a chance to fire on a stationary raven, try it.

I tested this on a 3L who decided to cockily engage me while standing completely still. We both started with yellow CTs. (I was in a TBT-5J wit 5ML+1SSRM2) With both of us completely stationary, I fired my 5ML directly onto his CT, hitting no other subsystems (according to my target grid). His CT went from yellow to slightly darker yellow. We continued to fire our respective guns into each other repeatedly, without moving our cursors (I can only assume for him, but definitely for me). After three salvos, I was out of CT armor and in the orange internals, he was still on orange CT armor. He won that completely stationary duel between an unmoving TBT and an unmoving 3L by about four times the damage dealt.

Raven (not just 3L) hitboxes DO NOT FUNCTION CORRECTLY. Ravens (especially the 3L) get the brunt of the "Netcode isnt working" complaints because they are the most common light variant seen. This leads people to believe all lights have "netcode armor". This is not true. I murder the other light variants left and right.

Yup.
I had a 3L standing directly in front of my Catapult C1, unmoving.
I emptied 3 Medium Pulse Lasers into him, repeatedly, for no apparent effect. (3 volleys before the rest of his team carved me up)
My ping is 90.

I'll add that I've had issues where the same thing happens with spiders though. Fire 3ML into a spider in a 1v1 duel. None of my lasers do jack. When hey gets into the 20m window for streaks a couple volleys definitely do damage, but the lasers=nothing.
Now I know I'm not a spectacular shot, especially against a jumping Spider, but you think that with around 20 sets of 3xML fire at him I'd have done something, since I got more than a few solid shots on my screen. He only has around 200 armor ffs.

Edited by One Medic Army, 01 March 2013 - 05:27 PM.

[Nostram]

Where is the option for "Do not have any problems with Ravens?"

[Dukarriope]

They're especially problematic in groups though just like this

[Corvus Antaka]

To me the obvious fact that the 3L is superior in so many ways to the other ravens is the only real issue. I really don't like that ECM has made so many other chassis irrelevant, I really wish ECM was on a different commando too, the ssrm/ecm combo just killed the other commandos in viability.

The tiny hitbox, the legs, the awesome electronics warfare and the sheer rage inducement of a Raven is really something that is the whole point of the mech in the first place, it's supposed to be one of the kings of electronic warfare, and it's profile and tiny oh so hard to hit legs are part of that.

[Cato Phoenix]

Originally ran mine with SRM6 + SRM2.

Then it basically got forced into the 'use streaks or get scrapped'.

It's not really fun to circle around clicking streaks off like the hundreds of other same 3L builds. So mine sits in my hangar for the occasional time I need to use lights for scrims.

[Fred013]

Nostram, on 01 March 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Where is the option for "Do not have any problems with Ravens?"

number 4 "no raven, with or without streaks, is OP"

Edited by Fred013, 01 March 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[Wraith 1]

I don't hate Ravens...

I hate anything that takes 4 particle cannons to the rear CT (Yes, I was in range.) and its armor is barely orange.

AC/20's don't seem to be affected as badly by the hitbox issues though, which is why I spent all my money on a K2.